Philo

If what you say is true - I am apalled and indeed frightened.

strayan, how do you know what "... majority of 250 000 Muslims " are up to? Do you perhaps "know" 10-20? And given the Muslim practice of taqiyya, are you sure that when their outward facade is friendly, inside they're not thinking you're a kaffir dog? When Muslims are a minority in Infidel lands, they're not so blatant (they plot violence in secret) and practice lesser jihads; demographic - outbreeding us (they reproduce at rates 3-4 times higher than us), propaganda (seems to be working, judging by some of the posts here) and by Da’wa - the Call to Islam (converts in prisons, "marginalized" minorities etc).
..."according to you are lessons on "violence, hate and terrorism."" Not according to me. If you'd bothered to research the Qur'an, hadith and sira' and learnt basic history (only 1350 years, check out India, Persia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Middle East, Armenia, the Balkans etc, all those [superior to Islam] civilizations, temples, libraries, statues, art works etc destroyed forever, all those people exterminated - 60-80 million Hindus in a 200 year period ) you wouldn't ask such stupid questions.
If you're so hip, explain where I've got it wrong - check these out: Qur'an 9:5, 9:29, 8:12, 5:51, 33:60, 4:34, 4:15, 33:26, 47:4, 48:29, 5:41and Tabari IX:69, Bukhari:V4B52N268, Ishaq:519 and Ishaq:365/Tabari VII:94. These cover supremecism, terrorism, deception, dhimmitude and misogyny. There are more. And don't take my word for it, see what ex-Muslims (they've been there, done that) like Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina and Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali have to say. Incidentally, they all have received death-threats for apostacy and live in the West.
"are you aware that the vast majority of Muslim Australians don't take that literally?" How do you know this? Or do you "wish" it were true? I've been studying these loons for a long time.As a devout Atheist, EXCUSE ME! for criticizing an ideology that wants me dead!
If you're gonna write in and give your opinion, do a bit of research first and get some FACTS.
Just because you 'wish' or 'guess' something is true doesn't make it right.

Fellow Human...

Listen carefully. Please understand that my position is that the 'muslim majority’ is INDIFFERENT and in DENIAL. Those are carefully chosen words. Most are not evil or criminals, but they cannot be counted upon to stand up for equality and human rights. Yes, they will condemn terror, but usually with a caveat. They also refuse to apply the standards to themselves that they demand for others. I can only conclude, as a group, that Muslims cannot be trusted.

Those are hard words, but they are based upon a mountain of evidence: history, current events, the situation of minorities and other groups in Islamic societies, and tons of posts on the Internet (such as here) trying to reason with Muslims and find common ground.

I read 10-15 Muslims blogs daily and Islamic information sites. I have tried to debate on Islamic sites, but my posts are deleted. I wish every person - Muslims and non-Muslim - as well as every person in the West would read the opinions on this site.

There is a dark under-current to Islam that says when it is in control, non-Muslims will be very sorry if they offend it in any way. Muslims may let you live, but you must shut up and be third class citizens (see http://www.copts.net/demands.asp).

Shoshana. I didn't ask 'about' torture. I asked you to condemn people who torture. You won't, you can't. See, folks - that's my point. This whole "Mohammed is a torturer" is just the point of the Islamic Iceberg that treatens to sink democratic, liberal socities. Can you trust a people who not only won't condemn a torturer, but add PBUM (Praise be unto him, my arse) after his name and consider him an example to emulate?

I am just about had it with dialogue. For two months I have been trying to get a Muslim to either deny their own histories, or admit that their great prophet of Islam was scum. With one half-hearted exception (doubted the stories), it has been futile.

The implications of this are monumental, and frightening. Think about this!

Kactuz

FellowH

In sound biblical interpretation, we must see 'who' said what.
It was SARAH who told Abraham to take Hagar, and it was the cultural thing to do then, but it was by no means God's will, as shown by the promise that Abraham would bear a child thru Sarah.
We cannot take every phrase uttered by every person and use it to justify all things. Mr half truth :)
Polygamy is an intresting study for sure, but by the time of Mohamed, there had been 600yrs of "An elder will be the husband of ONE wife" etc etc. It seems Mohamed was not in the loop when that value was made known, or perhaps it just did not 'suit his personality, preference passions and plan' ?

WHO...IS A PROPHET

Ash, the old testament clearly distinguishes between 'Prophet' and 'King' but allows for a degree of 'prophetic utterance' from kings, such as David, and Solomon. Now, if you look closely at the book of Kings, and especially at the works of prophet Amos, you will see that such cruelty is acceptable to God. You also find in both Solomon and David's case repentance for wrong doing. Not in Mohameds
True prophets, were those like Isaiah, Jeremiah,Ezekiel, Amos etc etc.

If you use the behavior of kings as a basis for doctrine, then why not use some of the bad kings ? clearly that is firstly unbiblical and secondly plain dangerous and even silly.

'GOOD CHRISTIANS' can goto heaven in an Islamic world ? then why does anyone need to become Muslim or confess "Mohamed is Allah's messenger" or.. will that make them a 'good' Christian. Sorry, the only person of any background who will be in Glory is he/she who has turned from sin and believed in Christ. "There is no other name under heaven, by which we must be saved" and that includes Mohamed. We are no more exclusive than scripture. So, i urge you to come to Him.
You were brought up by ur parents dude.. u were 'educated' at Delasalle.

BD,

I am simply quoting what the reference that muslims believe is a word of God and you know my reference is correct. Was pointing that Muslims that Good Christians can go to heaven as per above quote. You don’t have anything similar in your teachings although you claim you are more tolerant and accommodating.

SkidMatrix,

You spend too much time on answering-islam.org (ever noticed everything against Islam have a .org in it. $$$) but don’t hold us accountable for your ignorance mate. You made it up, repeated it to yourself until you believed it.

Kaktuz,

Copts.net is mostly by Christian separatism and most of it is not even endorsed by Pope Shenouda of the Alexandria Church. Why are they then supporting and voting for the existing president in the first democratic elections? They have Coptic Christmas as a public holiday and the Egyptian treasure among other key figures are Christians. What is happening in Egypt however is Theo-nepotism in some extreme cases: a Christian business operator will hire only Christians and some muslims do the same.

Some interfaith discrimination there is pure tribalism: ie a Christian copt girl will be killed by her family if she marries a muslim or a protestant (only be thrown out if she marries a Catholic). I lived in Egypt for 29 years.

Alchemist,

I am an Australian muslim suffering from a reverse oppression from the women in my life: my wife and two daughters. Even on father’s day had to make breakfast, change nappies, wash the dishes.

Seriously now, agree there is oppression against women in the world, but Islam is the least faith in the Abrahamic religions that could preach it. Medieval Europe burnt 400,000 women with red hair and green eyes. From 1940 to 1960 French men raped more than 2 million women in Algeria (after killing 1 million). How is that Islam related?

My point is: fanaticism is not exclusive to Islam. As soon as the religion comes out of hearts & mind to become land, resource, policy, wealth related, then it is all bad practice of a good religion

To all:

Re Philo's mention of an 'Islamic political party' in Australia, I actually thought he was joking at first, then I checked it out, its real. Very 'Sharia' oriented, and specifically 'Islamic'.

Now, I feel totally vindicated in my previous comments concerning Islam and "Political Stability". I've said that in connection with 2 other points.

1/ Social Cohesian.
2/ Cultural Compatability.
3/ Political Stability.

The REASON I mention political stability (if anyone can remember back far enough) is because I KNOW from personal experience how easy it is to manipulate democracy even though you may have less than 2% of the population. Having lived IN such a seat, and having influence over radio broadcasts which were listened to IN that seat.. one realizes the potential, specially when most of the people in that seat do not share the prevailing governments values/goals.

If a government is having just a ONE seat majority, to lose '1' seat will mean a change of government, a change of chief minister, and a re-shaping of the history of the country.

I'm often going on about the danger of ethnic/religious minorities who are quite conversant with these realities, and now we are SEEING IT BEFORE OUR EYES........

In the same way Family First, or the 'Religious Right' (so called) can use its influence, so can an extremist group like 'Best Allah' party ? (what a name ) They may well be able to capture the vote of sufficient 'dissillusioned muslims' and win just 'one' seat, which would give them signficant deal making power.

Ash.... u can say what you like, but we know history, little anecdotes mean nothing. Read about Siege of Vienna, and the Battle of Tours. You mob tried to take over the world buddy, we wont let that ever happen again... ever... ever :)