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The Forum > Article Comments > Will the Ukraine stalemate spawn climate catastrophe? > Comments

Will the Ukraine stalemate spawn climate catastrophe? : Comments

By Andris Heks, published 7/6/2022

It is not every day that you hear two of the world's shrewdest senior voices in international affairs, George Soros and Henry Kissinger agree.

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Hey Andris,

Ok, I'll go through what I'd written about Soros and his speech, and your article.

I think I firstly have to not only look at the mindset of what Soros himself said but also look at the mindset of the people in attendance.
As the discussion started out Soros said "Even when the fighting stops, as it eventually must, the situation will never revert to the status quo ante. Indeed, the Russian invasion may turn out to be the beginning of World War III, and our civilization may not survive it."
- That should've been a sombre moment, (like you should've been able to hear a pin drop) but the people in attendance clapped and cheered.

When it later came to questions from those in attendance, I felt like the people asking questions were more interested in trying to crawl up his backside for their own self-aggrandisment and a seat at the adults table than being left seated at the kiddies tables than anything else.

Soros began by talking about Open Societies v's Closed Societies.
"In an open society, the role of the state is to protect the freedom of the individual; in a closed society, the role of the individual is to serve the rulers of the state."
- The thing that came to my mind was JFK's speech, "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
(This use of antimetabole can be seen even as a thesis statement of his speech—a call to action for the public to do what is right for the greater good.)
It seems to me that Soros statement is at odds with JFK's - JFK was saying it's an individuals role to do what they can for their country,
- which is more in line with Soros definition of a closed society, serving the rulers of the state.
It seemed to me that JFK's definition found a balance built upon the Bill of Rights of the US system (freedom of the individual) whilst also serving the best interests of the country.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 19 June 2022 8:46:02 AM
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Soros seemed to criticise China for protecting International athletes and quaratining individuals in China, indeed it seems he was criticising Xi for not cancelling the Olympics altogether.

And it's as though he found a way to pull the wool over peoples eyes in continuing to ostrasise Xi Xinping, when he admitted it was successful in protecting athletes and global visitors "Olympics concluded without a hitch". but then noted that further outbreaks then occurred elsewhere, in Shanghai, not Beijing.
Then he seemed to criticise Xi "Xi harbors a guilty secret..." for using vaccines designed for the Wuhan variant, which he admitted were near useless against Omicron.

- This actually pissed me off, I thought's it's a bit hypocritical given we're pushing 4th doses of vaccines that have been unchanged since the beginning of the pandemic.
If he's saying they're useless against Omicrom, then why are we and every other western nation currentlt now pushing 4th booster shots of a vaccine designed for Covid 19 when we have the Omicron variant?

He criticises quarantine facilities, of not allowing people to quarantine at home, (where they would've spread it to friends and family) and hence increased the viral spread.
In the bigger picture it seems he supports the push towards the 'Living with Covid' model,
(and along with it the global powers of the WHO which Tedros almost got last month if not for members of the African Union who opposed it)
- i.e a push towards global government - a sellout of our sovereignty into the hands of foreign bureaucrats.

Then he criticised Putins military operation in Ukraine saying the Russian speaking people didn't welcome Russians.

That's not exactly true,
http://youtu.be/4TSe4A1EuP4
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 19 June 2022 8:59:40 AM
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"Instead, Ukraine put up unexpectedly strong resistance and inflicted severe damage on the invading Russian army, which was badly equipped, badly led, and soon became demoralized. The US and the EU rallied to Ukraine’s support and supplied it with armaments. With their help, Ukraine was able to defeat the much larger Russian army in the battle for Kyiv."

Mistakes were made, but truth is the Russian army probably have more combat experience than any other country right now, with Ukraine coming second and the US has been arming and training them for 8 years.

"But Putin had very little to celebrate. Shamanov concentrated his efforts on the port city of Mariupol, which used to have 400,000 inhabitants. He reduced it to rubble, as he had done to Grozny, but the Ukrainian defenders held out for a long time."

I wouldn't say it was a non-achievement the more ground Russia takes, the less Ukraine has, they're losing. I think he was aiming to capture Zelensky (which would have avoided further loss of life) as well as look for biolabs hidden in nuclear facilities. As well as he's succeeded in securing Donetsk region, close to taking all of Luhansk and has taken all the southern part of the country, made a land bridge to Crimea and created enough of a buffer that Crimea and the Kersh Straight bridge is beyond the reach of long range weapons.

If Russia seems bogged down, it's because Ukraine had 8 years to dig in and create multiple lines of defense, as soon as Russian troops get past this, they may take ground a little faster.

Soros talks about Bucha and war crimes, this is not the truth.
It was Ukrainian forces who upon going back into the town when Russia pulled back were shooting collaborators and then used what they did as a context to blame what they did on Russia and to cite war crimes.

Do you think there is not an information war happening?
Do you not think they suppress information they don't want us to know and promote narratives they do?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 19 June 2022 9:16:10 AM
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"The Ukrainians are doing their best, counterattacking, even at times boldly penetrating Russian territory. Such tactics have had the added benefit of bringing home to the Russian population what is really going on."

Obviously he didn't tell the Russian people that he was planning to invade, so there was some shock to the people and a little pushback.
But by and large Putin is supported by Russians.

The stories we hear of Russians being shocked and opposing the war, are 5th columns who will use anything to deliberately stir up dissent. The US has actually been deliberately funding VPN's for the purposes of allowing Western aligned Russians to access western news to deliberately try to destabilite him in Russia.

Do you not understand that weapons the west has been pumping into Ukraine go into a black hole and cant be tracked. You can buy a Javelin on the Dark Web right now for US$30k. It won't be long until some leader is taken out with one, or a commercial airliner is taken down with a stinger. The West has been reckless in its weapons shipments.

Next he talks about a more United Europe, this is exactly why I posted info about Zbigniew Brzezinski's book the Grand Chessboard, it's exactly in line with western plans conceived long ago.

He talks about preventing any Veto-Powers of individial member stats, and of wanting EU (and therefore NATO) expansion.

I'm only halfway through this speech, many things are mischaracterised and above all else, neither Soros or any of the people in attendance raise the issue of Soros' own hand in helping to create the situation as it now exists.

Have you listened to Putin's St Petersburg speech?
http://youtu.be/elt-bfwkWuo
Apparently many Americans are impressed by it and wish they had a leader like him.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 19 June 2022 9:39:05 AM
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ARMCHAIR CRITIC:

You say:

‘Soros began by talking about Open Societies v's Closed Societies.

"In an open society, the role of the state is to protect the freedom of the individual; in a closed society, the role of the individual is to serve the rulers of the state."

- The thing that came to my mind was JFK's speech, "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
(This use of antimetabole can be seen even as a thesis statement of his speech—a call to action for the public to do what is right for the greater good.)'

To me an Open Society is what Soros says, combined with Kennedy's motto.

A society where'the free development of one is the condition for the free development of all.'
The exact opposite of Putin's fascism.

You say of Soros:

‘i.e a push towards global government - a sellout of our sovereignty into the hands of foreign bureaucrats.’

No, open society is incompatible with global state control.
It is Xi who is devoted to this: for the CCP to rule the world.

You say:

‘Soros talks about Bucha and war crimes, this is not the truth.
It was Ukrainian forces who upon going back into the town when Russia pulled back were shooting collaborators and then used what they did as a context to blame what they did on Russia and to cite war crimes.’

Here you buy into Putin’s fake misinformation again.

Satellite photos taken during Russian control of Bucha prove conclusively that the dead bodies were lying there during and due to the Russian massacre of the people
Posted by Andris, Sunday, 19 June 2022 2:07:45 PM
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To Armchair Critic continued:

You say:

‘The US has actually been deliberately funding VPN's for the purposes of allowing Western aligned Russians to access western news to deliberately try to destabilite him in Russia.’

Actually, it is any access to TRUTH which is destabilising for Putin.

You say unbelievably:

‘Have you listened to Putin's St Petersburg speech?
http://youtu.be/elt-bfwkWuo
Apparently many Americans are impressed by it and wish they had a leader like him.'

You’ve got to be kidding!

I listened to the speech: it is misinformation from the beginning to the end.

Putin is a psycho-sociopathic genocidal Fascist, a pathological liar, who lives in a bubble of propaganda far removed from reality
Posted by Andris, Sunday, 19 June 2022 3:16:26 PM
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