Jayb writes: "All this assumes that there is a God to start with."

Precisely! All this talk of a Trinity is meaningless until it can be demonstrated that, not only does a god exist, but that this god is this
god of the Bible.

--

Not_Now.Soon,

Yes, indeed it was a robust discussion. However, at no point did you successfully counter any of my points.

<<As for the experiences .... Your counter point is mostly a short "there are other Explainations.">>

Not quite.

My point was that there are more RATIONAL explanations, and you were unable to provide an example of where one should opt for the less rational explanation.

<<With the wider diversity of experiences that counterpoint just doesn't hold up.>>

How so?

<<A man in debt recieves a large sum of money by a person who says they felt or heard God directing them to help the man out.>>

How would this be evidence of anything supernatural?

<<There are more spiritual experiences to show that either God or something is out there.>>

How do they do this?

<<If you say they don't know what's real or not, or it's all in their head, what grounds do you have that homosexuals aren't just making it up too, and don't really know if they can be streight or not.>>

Because we know that sexuality exists. We cannot know that anything supernatural exists. Your analogy is flawed.

<<Are you saying that the magority of people have mental lapses and don't know what's real or not, but you and those you who support your ideals are sane and trustworthy in judgment?>>

No.

<<Experience trumps understanding and rationel.>>

Perhaps, but you still need evidence for your interpretation of these experiences. And you still need to explain how supernatural explanations trump rational explanations. You have still not done this.

<<… you address the phenomena of answered prayer to a guy who loses his keys and eventually find them, making the prayer to find them meaningless.>>

This is a gross over-simplification of what I said. Please go back and re-read what I had actually said.

I believe we can communicate with each other without speaking.

It is not something that we can always do at will, but it definetly exists.
It could account for some of the coincidences attributed to God.

I have had people answer me when I have only thought something in my mind.
People close to me have rung the phone at the exact moment I needed their
help. Is this long distance mind connection or some kind of universal divine
presence.

Could be both operating at different times, and in different situations.
The two might even be connected and work in tandem.

.

Dear Peter,

.

The theological concept of the trinity clearly reflects the macho mentality of the time and which, regrettably, a large proportion of humanity continues to perpetuate.

The monotheist religions of all denominations are largely responsible for this situation. From a doctrinal, moral, spiritual, and pastoral point of view, I find that unacceptable.

The trinity, as evidenced in nature, consists of « mother, father and child », penetrated - as Pope Francis pointed out in his “Amoris Laetitia” (to which George kindly posted a link) - by the « joy of love ».

No need for any complicated mysticism, nor, as you suggest : to « allow some slippage in our adherence to an understanding of cause and effect as in Newton's laws of motion » or, to state it more simply : a stretch of the imagination !

The rule of the Church so far seems to have been : “the notion of God is complicated and impossible to apprehend … therefore it requires an explanation that is just as complicated and impossible to apprehend” - or, in other words, "if you think it's simple, then you simply haven't understood" !

If that is the case, then I, personally, prefer to wait and see …

.

"No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous, than the fact, which it endeavours to establish."
- Section X of An Enquiry concerning Human Understanding, David Hume

http://www.davidhume.org/texts/ehu.php#E10

Jayb
You're bringing logic into this? Like Isaac Newton?
Where Father and Son have names in Newton's Bible of King James the Spirit is the exception . No ranking , no family line, no teachings or even speaking one word. Even Satan gets a few lines spoken to the first man , to God in Heaven and to Jesus. Angel Gabriel speaks, angels roar like thunder but silence from the Spirit. And it's not even called God the Holy Spirit in any Bible . The answer is blowing in the wind.

nnn: And it's not even called God the Holy Spirit in any Bible.

You're right. There is no God the Holy Ghost. Sooooo..... The Holy Ghost must not be a God. Just a "Hanger Oner" in the Trinity.

Like the third wheel in a group or a Couple's bothersome girlfriend who won't disappear for ten minutes.