Seems to be a lot of people on "Magic Mushrooms" at the moment.

Dear Jay,

«Seems to be a lot of people on "Magic Mushrooms" at the moment.»

Yes, especially for believing that the world is real and that whatever our distorting senses and mind tell us is indeed so.

Not_Now.Soon,

What makes you think atheists are missing something and need to “open their eyes” and “wake up”?

<<The best you can do (if you don't ignore the world around you) is to not be conclusive about what exists in world that are the spiritual or supernatural.>>

I don't think many atheists would be ”conclusive” about the supernatural; not any more than they would be about Russell's Teapot, at least. However, the time to believe something is when there is reliable evidence.

<<But to those who pay enough attention, it should be plain as day.>>

How so?

To Sells (Peter?),

I apologize for sounding nit picky. But there are a few points that I'd like to hear more on what you mean. On the point of the Holy Soirit obviously not being a person, if you can explain what you mean or why that would help. Both God and Jesus I count their own person, so based on the discriptions in the gospel why wouldn't the Holy Spirit be the same way? The second point on the stories of the bible being just stories and not real. I don't understand how you can be a Christian and not hold that God can perform the miracles described in the bible.

Those are the two points I'm sorry to nit pick about. The rest concerning the Holy Spirit I think I need to read again and then reasurch the links George gave. It's important to have the Holy Spirit and to listen to Him. So with that in mind it's a great topic to bring up and shed light on what it means to have the Holy Spirit, or even what the Holy Spirit is.

I expecially agree with the last paragraph and the sentence after it. That neglecting the Spirit sterilizes our desire; and that to have an experience with the Spirit is an experience with God. All else is theory. Fully agree.

"Calling the trinitarian entities "persons" is obviously metaphorical since they are not persons as you and I are persons. . How does a non-corporeal entity act with intention in the world? We may as well say that the trees and the mountains care for us. Attempts to describe the event of the resurrection of Christ in terms of cause and effect reduce it to an event that exists in the world contrary to what we know about how the world works. "

God is dead , long live the Church.
"Maya means "appearance, not mere illusion". . the root of the word may be man- or "to think", implying the role of imagination in the creation of the world. In early Vedic usage, the term implies, states Mahony, "the wondrous and mysterious power to turn an idea into a physical reality"... other possible roots of m&#257;y&#257; include may- meaning mystify,.
Jan Gonda considers the word related to m&#257;, which means "mother" serving as an epithet for goddesses . Maya here is the maker’s power, writes Zimmer, "a mother in all three worlds", a creatrix, her magic is the activity in the Will-spirit."

If God's Creation is a metaphor , mystery and illusion then Sells thinks he writes text . Sadly he won't be resurrected to meet the corporeal mother in heaven , the only person left standing with any spirit.

To Alan B.

[I've never contested a creative force nor spirit!]

[not a problem, always providing you don't fill young impressionable heads with your fantasy, before they develop critical thinking.]

Sure sounds like contesting any spiritual forces. But perhaps I don't know your meaning as well as you meant it. Be streight and not two faced, or a crooked tongue might just be contagious and those you talk to will speak on simular levels to not say what they mean and stick by it. Either way, if you at least acknowledge a spiritual side of the world, that's at least a start.

[Just the interpretation of both that then confer power into clearly unworthy or unchosen hands?]

The proplem in this though is that we are all unworthy, but not all unchosen. No one is more unworthy on this the anyone else. We have an astute opservation as a common phrase with this in mind, "nobody's perfect." However even though no one is worthy, God still grands us a place in His plans, even to teach His wisdom. This is just my observation, perhaps you've never seen this.

To Jayb. Are you the only one who doesn't know? Seems most others here have theories to explain the spiritual elements of the world. How can you not be even aware of them?

To AJ Philips. We've discussed this in length before. Open your eyes. When we discussed it before one point you made was a weak portrayal of answered prayer (one example of spiritual experiences). If you can not address the matter as it actually is without a false critism of it, on the matter of prayer, then what hope is there in discussing it in the broader sence of spiritual experiences as a whole.

I'll say it again. Open your eyes. Christians aren't the only ones who have spiritual experiences, nor are all spiritual experiences good ones but you will deny them anyways? Because they are not reasonable? Or because you aren't as reasonable as you think?