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The Forum > Article Comments > Abbas abandons peace negotiations with Israel > Comments

Abbas abandons peace negotiations with Israel : Comments

By David Singer, published 24/8/2016

Mahmoud Abbas’s decision to prosecute Britain for publishing the 1917 Balfour Declaration amounts to an outright rejection of the right of the Jewish people to have their own state.

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In Wikipedia Palestinians:
The 1st para has -
"Palestinian" was used to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the local population of Christians and Muslims in a limited way until World War I.[35][36]
The refs 35, 36 have the info quoted.
In Etymology section of wikipedia Palestinians , the term is used in para 3 and 4 for early 1900s.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 4:13:58 PM
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#nicknamenick

Thanks for the further infomation.

Footnote 36 indeed refers to the Lewis Book but Lewis does not actually support the following claim:

"Palestinian" was used to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the local population of Christians and Muslims in a limited way until World War 1"

Lewis indeed supports Pipes as the following extract taken from the link below makes clear:

"Bernard Lewis argues it was not as a Palestinian nation that the Palestinian Arabs of the Ottoman empire objected to Zionists, since the very concept of such a nation was unknown to the Arabs of the area at the time and did not come into being until later. Even the concept of Arab nationalism in the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire, "had not reached significant proportions before the outbreak of World War I."[17]

Daniel Pipes asserts that "No 'Palestinian Arab people' existed at the start of 1920 but by December it took shape in a form recognizably similar to today's." Pipes argues that with the carving of the British Mandate of Palestine out of Greater Syria the Arabs of the new Mandate were forced to make the best they could of their situation, and therefore began to define themselves as Palestinian.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism

The fact that the three main political organizations in Palestine-the Arab Club, the Literary Club, and the Muslim-Christian Association - all worked for union with Syria - makes the two statements you have referred to - that are not substantiated in any way - totally without foundation.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 5:56:56 PM
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The Etymology referred to has:
The Arabic newspaper Falasteen (est. 1911), published in Jaffa by Issa and Yusef al-Issa, addressed its readers as "Palestinians".[74].[75] During the Mandatory Palestine period, the term "Palestinian" was used to refer to all people residing there, regardless of religion or ethnicity, and those granted citizenship by the British Mandatory authorities were granted "Palestinian citizenship".[76] Other examples include the use of the term Palestine Regiment to refer to the Jewish Infantry Brigade Group of the British Army during World War II, and the term "Palestinian Talmud", which is an alternative name of the Jerusalem Talmud, used mainly in academic sources.
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But does it matter that much ? If Arabs called themselves Abrahamic Chosen Grapevine would that alter the Jewish case?
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 6:36:27 PM
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#nicknamenick

It does matter - because you originally raised the issue in a one line throwaway sentence that needed to be clarified by you and either substantiated or rebutted.

After all this toing and froing your Wikipedia statements have now turned out to be nothing but a beat up without any real foundation or substance.

Lewis says exactly the opposite to what the footnote is supposedly said to have substantiated and Pipes supports Lewis.

Besides Lewis and Pipes you can also add all 51 members of the League of Nations who correctly referred to the Moslem and Christian residents of Palestine as "the existing non-Jewish communities" - not the "Palestinians".

In 1919 Palestine's Arab residents - Moslem and Christian - were seeking union with Syria - not independence in Palestine.

If you don't agree - tell me why.
Posted by david singer, Tuesday, 30 August 2016 11:43:13 PM
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My preceding post quotes comments that it was used in a limited way if not a general concept.
But again, what does my opinion or Arab opinion matter for the Jewish case?
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 6:15:26 AM
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#nicknamenick

Your belated comment that your "preceding post quotes comments that it was used in a limited way if not a general concept." is a far cry from your original comment that sparked our exchange:
"The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people."

Wikipedia is notorious for providing incorrect information and referring to sources that do not support Wikipedia's claims.

In this instance the source referred to - Bernard Lewis - states exactly the opposite to what he is supposed to be substantiating. This only becomes clear when one goes to the source himself - Bernard Lewis

As you might know - Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

What you quoted was probably the work of someone trying to bolster the Arab narrative in a deceptive and misleading way.

You apparently have relied on Wiki in good faith and appear to have been an innocent victim in this case.

What does this matter for the Jewish case? It exposes the falsity of the Arab narrative and reinforces the credibility of the Jewish narrative.

#Geoff of Perth is one of those who deliberately fabricates the Arab narrative and tries to deceive readers concerning the Jewish narrative - as I have shown in relation to the alleged Ben Gurion "quote" used by #Geoff.

Exposing such propaganda is a long struggle as our exchange has shown and also my exchange with #Geoff.

Hopefully these two examples will give you a better understanding of the Arab-Jewish conflict that has raged unresolved for 100 years.
Posted by david singer, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 10:28:38 AM
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