//Your attempt to connect China's occupation of Tibet since 1950 - a previously sovereign independent State - with the position in the West Bank and Gaza//

You misunderstand my point. Deliberately so, I suspect.

Or perhaps you're just not that clever.

Either way, the point I was trying to make was that achievements made by citizens of a given state do not somehow excuse misdeeds committed by said state. Who taught you ethics? Because if they taught you that positive propaganda excuses immoral behaviour, they taught you wrong. You might want to sue them for malpractice.

The development of life-saving malaria treatments by Chinese researchers is terrific, but it doesn't negate China's dreadful record on human rights.

The development of human heart transplants in apartheid South Africa was great, but it didn't cancel out the immorality of apartheid.

The development of the V2 guided rocket was a staggering technological achievement which paved the way to later developments in rocketry, including the Apollo program. And the VW Beetle is still an awesome automobile. Neither of them - nor any other beneficial achievement of the Nazis - can ever make the Shoah OK.

Do you get it yet? All the leukemia treatments and melon rating algorithms (I'm nominating the latter for an IgNobel) developed by Israeli citizens can never excuse immoral actions by the state of Israel because, well, that's just not how it works.

Pro-Israeli propaganda outlining the achievements of Israeli citiziens does not, can not, and will never be able to, excuse immoral behaviour committed by the state of Israel.

You might want to attempt a line of argument without holes the size of Jupiter in it. Otherwise you make life too easy for your opponents, and people tire quickly of shooting fish in barrels.

#Toni

A. Could you please specify in detail the "misdeeds" or "immoral behaviour of Israel" that you are referring to?

How do you equate those misdeeds or immoral behaviour with these examples cited by you?

"China's dreadful record on human rights"
"Apartheid South Africa"
"The Shoah"

B. Do you accept the factual accuracy of the following statements

1.Gaza and the West Bank have never been sovereign independent States.
2. 100% of Gaza's population is governed by Hamas.
3. 95% of the Arab population of the West Bank presently residing in Areas "A" and "B" of the West Bank are governed by the PLO under the Oslo Accords.
4. The remaining 5% of the West Bank Arab population are located in Area "C" and are governed by Israel under the Oslo Accords.
5. Israel made offers in 2000/1 and 2007 to cede its claims to sovereignty in more than 90% of the West Bank and all of Gaza to enable a second sovereign independent Arab State to be created in former Palestine in addition to Jordan. Those offers were rejected by the PLO.

C. My pointing out the many positive achievements emanating from Israel was made in response to #Emperor's view that the Jewish State of Israel should be wiped off the map - as he expressed himself:

"The Zionists can be defeated by building the revulsion of the world community, including the Jews, against the racist excrescence of overlord Israel. Rocket attacks into Israel are unlikely to do it."

Do you have the same view as Emperor?

//Could you please specify in detail the "misdeeds" or "immoral behaviour of Israel" that you are referring to?//

Well here's one:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/israel-apologises-over-mossad-passport-row/2005/06/26/1119724524564.html

http://www.smh.com.au/world/not-a-smiling-assassin-but-a-victim-of-fraud-20100309-pvuw.html

http://www.smh.com.au/national/mossad-hit-snares-australians-20100225-p60e.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/17/dubai-assassins-stolen-british-identities

Which puts paid to any notion that Israel are shining beacons of moral virtue. Nobody's perfect. We lock up children in indefinite detention, abuses ones in the child correctional service, etc. No, they're not the Khmer Rouge. But they're hardly saints either, and trying to claim that they are thanks to their wondrous melon-rating algorithms is patently ridiculous.

//How do you equate those misdeeds or immoral behaviour with these examples cited by you?//

Umm, because they've all committed immoral behaviour? It's not exactly quantum electrodynamics, Dave: if you do something morally wrong, you've behaved immorally. Things that are morally wrong do not magically become right if they are compared to things that are morally worse (e.g. the Shoah), nor do two wrong things cancel out to make a right thing. And I'd still like a word with your ethics teacher.

//Do you have the same view as Emperor?//

I don't know. I'm not not as telepathic as you are, Dave, and I can't read his mind. I don't even bother to try, it just gives me a headache. I've always wanted to meet a genuine telepath. Are the al-foil hats which conspiracy theorists are traditionally ridiculed for wearing actually effective in blocking thought rays, or are we right to continue mocking them? What happens if you telepathise somebody who is asleep? I'll probably think of more questions later.

#Toni

Nice to see that you acknowledge that at least Israel "is not the Khmer Rouge. But they're hardly saints"

Of course they are hardly saints and are entitled to be criticised and held to account for their actions - like any other countries.

Jews have been in a state of unresolved conflict with 21 Arab States for the last 100 years. Resolving that conflict must be the primary ongoing objective of both the Jews and Arabs to end "misdeeds" such as the one you refer to.

The solution certainly is not to call for Israel to be wiped off the map as #Geoff, #Thomas O'Reilly and #nickname wish to see.

Do you want to see Israel wiped off the map? I asked that question last time round but you deftly managed to avoid answering it.

Just a "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Yemen, North Korea, Kenya, China, Nigeria, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia - or even Australia - are not saints either.

Where would you rank Israel among these nations? Number 1 or where in the pecking order?

In the year ended September 13, 2016, "the General Assembly adopted 19 resolutions condemning Israel and 7 critical of human rights violations by all other 192 UN countries combined. Action on Syria totaled one resolution, despite upwards of 400,000 dead and counting. The UN’s egregious discrimination and demonization of the Jewish state – directed at Israelis regardless of where they live – is the anti-Jewish kind of hate and incitement."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/09/14/all-jews-out-palestine-is-not-peace-plan.html

Do you consider the UN to be immoral in so acting given what is happening in just those 16 UN countries named above?

Just a "yes" or "no" answer will suffice.

Yes.

The same way Boer South Africa was wiped off the face of the earth and for much the same reason - the racial supremacism (i.e. racism) of a well armed minority. A racism with which the international community lost patience. Racist Israel's turn will be next.

@ david singer: "The solution certainly is not to call for Israel to be wiped off the map as ... #Thomas O'Reilly .... wish to see."

Stop lying about me and defaming me you lowlife scumbag insidious creep!

Don't you dare "put words in my mouth" you lying Hasbara hasbeen and decrepit delusional idiot. (I can prove these valid opinions btw)

I already warned you - I will slap a lawsuit on you as quick as greased lighten if you do not RETRACT YOUR LYING DEFAMATION.

I don't care if I win it or not - it will be a joy to see no matter what.

What I did say was that Israel is, in my opinion, an illegitimate nation state and always has been. I offered a little of my reasoning.
The legal brief is too large to post in 350 words.

If you were not such an insidious dishonourable dishonest fanatical religious bigoted zealot you would have included a link ref to other threads here of what you falsely CLAIM other people say.

But your a pathetic sick phuk who intentionally covers his tracks and his lies as all Hasbaras are taught to do.

The only person who mentioned JEWS has been you Singer, you stupid fool!

The USSR, Kampuchea and Hitler all disappeared from the face of the Earth.

So goes you and the State of Israel, eventually. Your days are numbered.
-