Wow, what a great argument, Joe.

I can recall hearing back in primary school:

"Yeah, well you are too..."

Makes me proud to be Australian - oh yeah, nearly forgot - and white..., thanks for reminding me how superior white people are Jay, I would never have been able to tell from your example.

You're in good company Joe.

Lego’s Quotes 3 of 3, Loudmouth and Jayb

I suggest that you look at the detailed translations of the verses 2:190-194; 22:39 and 60:8-9 to see as the self-defence to be the only condition to go to war reinforcing FACTS 1, 2 and 3 outlined in the beginning of this message.

I also suggest that you read life history of Muhammad (Saw) through the pen of a mainstream scholar.

Karen Armastrong’s “Muhammad – A Prophet of Our Time” would be a good starting point. There are many other Western writers of the current age you can read. Will help you shed the baseless hate-material one finds on hundreds of hate-sites today.

Karen Armstrong also takes up the issue of Jews killed for their treachery in face of a written treaty and holds it perfectly valid (like many other mainstream historians) according to prevailing tribal laws of time and the land. A notable fact is that the decision was announced by an arbitrator appointed by the concerned Jewish tribe themselves. Read real history.

On your assertion of violence in Quran on no grounds whatsoever, will you tell us why you omit the real violent injunctions of other scriptures or you want me to point it out for you?

Finally, still no reference from you on << Muhammad demanded that Abu Safyan become a Muslim or he would chop his head off>> (your post 27 Feb). You will NOT find one from reliable biographies of Muhammad (Saw).

Loudmouth,
Your post of 1 March 8:13 AM.

You have refused for the 4th time (I will update the count every time you repeat your question) to assure me that you will answer my questions after I answer yours.

Still you hope that I will answer your question without your assurance.

Some hope!

Same question: what world do you live in?
More importantly, what are you?

Jayb: Your answer for Loudmouth counts for nothing. He can write, can’t he? I find your attempt at an ‘intelligent’ answer to be quite unimpressive! Will come to your questions when I get time from ongoing exchange.

NC: I suggest that you look at the detailed translations of the verses 2:190-194; 22:39 and 60:8-9 to see as the self-defence to be the only condition to go to war reinforcing FACTS 1, 2 and 3 outlined in the beginning of this message.

Here's how moslems really interpret those Sura's. If they deny this then it is Taqiyya, or Lying for Allah. That is permitted.
See the Hadith collection of Bukhari, vol. 4, book 52, numbers 268/9 & 271).

268:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".

269:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "War is deceit

271:
Narrated Jabir:
The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)."
Using taqiyya, deceit in warfare, to put his enemy at a disadvantage.

Using taqiyya, or deceit in warfare, to put his enemy at a disadvantage.

2:190. Create trouble buy demanding the people convert. If they refuse, say you are defending Islam & kill them.

2:191. Start insisting the people convert. If Allah is rejected that is a reason to kill them.

2:192. If they accept Allah then don't, kill them.

2:193 Kill them all if they don't convert.

2:194. moslems are not to fight in the prohibited month unless the people try to kick them out then kill them.

22:39. If the people don't convert, kill them.

60:8. Move into an area & create trouble by demanding the people change their Culture. If they don't, Kill them.

60:9. If the people don't like your Culture or Religion & try to kick you out, kill them.

I think all that's pretty straight forward, don't you. This is how moslems really see their struggle to convert the unbelieving World.... or else.

Jayb,
given that NC is a Moslem and he has said several times that he does not see the world the way you claim that "moslems really see their struggle" then it's pretty obvious that you have about as much insight about Moslems a I do about congenital idiots who post crap they know nothing about.

The old Irish advice about not opening one's mouth to avoid removing all doubt about one's status as a fool seems to have avoided your ear.

Hi NC,

A lot of words there. How about a simple 'yes' or 'no' to my simple question ?

Joe

Yeah, white supremacy rulez, eh Joe?

Can you hear that whirring sound of someone spinning in her grave?

You need to find an altogether better class of friends mate.