What about the ordering the killing of homosexuals and adulterers?

A simple question,

McAdam/NC,

But why Reverts and not Converts? How could we all be born Muslim? Why is there only one way? This is crazy stuff. Dar es Salaam or Dar al-Islam doesn't end up peaceful I'm afraid.

I’m so sorry for you both. It is not your fault you were both born into Islam.

I know there are some good Muslims. But please face facts. You have been brain washed to hate. Do you really wish to destroy all civilisations? You must look for the beauty in this world. You must find a new path. Go to nature first.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur%27an
9:103
Take alms out of their property, you would cleanse them and purify them thereby, and pray for them; surely your prayer is a relief to them; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
3:85
And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
9:5
Verse of the Sword
9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
2:191

2:192
And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 9:5
Verse of the Sword

Constance and Kactuz,

On Kactuz’s (11 Jan)

<<Personally, I would consider a good Muslim to be one that admits the violence advocated in the Quran, and apologizes for it, and also condemns the nefarious actions of Islam’s prophet>>

From his description of a moderate Muslims, kactuz himself ONLY qualifies to be a moderate Muslim.

He seems to asking a Muslim – “the only condition for you to live is to kill yourself”

Hatred of Islam and Muslims has robbed him of any trace of rationality and sanity. This is what hatred does to a person!

Can a person like him be reasoned with?

Constance,

On your <<These are just a few anecdotes>> you seem to asking for my comment, how can I comment without knowing the other side of the versions you heard and believed. A comment like that would be against universally accepted principles. Wouldn’t it be?

What you hear first or what you read first is NOT all you need to arrive at the facts. You will need to change this habit to see light out of the self-created darkness that surrounds you in respect of Quran and Muhammad.

Your questions to me have been answered, I think.
Explain what you mean by

<<But why Reverts and not Converts?>>, I will address it

Instead of responding to my posts (11th) on your:

• Misrepresentation of facts: Example “kill Jews” in a verse not even containing the word “Jew” or killing others;
• Mischief of wrong words in translations: Many; and
• Lack of understanding of the overall context.

(You owe to the readers apologies on each distortion you have wilfully made on Quran. But are you honourable enough to offer apology?)

You have referred to new verses from Quran. I will address those. In the meantime, let me hear what I said above.

I notice you quoting wikiislam – one of the most notorious Islamophobe sites. So you are back to your den of darkness again.
You have raised issues of history.

See my next posts.

NC,

Do you agree that homosexuals and adulterers should be killed?

Or did we get the relevant bits of Islamic teaching wrong?

Just a simple question.

COLONIALISM and CHURCH’s SUPPORT for it. (1 of 3)

Modern colonialism is a trauma that human psyche will take time to transcend.

The pain it brought to the subjugated people is not the subject of this post.

I will try to limit myself to the zealous support that Christian Church provided to this mass-scale exploitation of nations, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.

Motive: Greed; Justification: Religious – interesting combination.

Limited by space, this post will focus on significant observations.

AFRICA: Jomo Kenyatta ( 1893-1978) is considered to be the founding father of the Kenyan nation.

“When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

The famous Desmond Tutu said similar things so many times in his historical struggle against Apartheid of South Africa.

SUBCONTINENT: Dr Iqbal – “When they eye the assets of the other nations, the ambassadors of the Church are their vanguards.”

NORTH AMERICA: Chief Pontiac (1720-1769)

"They came with a Bible and their religion - stole our land, crushed our spirit - and now tell us we should be thankful to the ‘Lord’ for being saved."

AMERICAS: The Spanish conquest of Americas was supported by Pope Innocent IV on the bases that infidels violated the natural law. The Pope provided full religious justification of enslavement of the locals. For decades, the Spanish colonists insisted that the only way to teach civilisation to locals was to introduce them to Christianity. They promoted some of the most brutal exploitation of the slave labour that recent history records.

MIDDLE EAST: Edward Said (1935-2003).Professor at Columbia University and the writer of the ground-breaking book “Orientalism”. The book has acquired the status of a standard reference in academic institutions on the subject of Orientalism and how it has historical served the Colonialism. The single most significant proponent of Orientalism has been the Christian Church.

“We allow justly that the Holocaust has permanently altered the consciousness of our time”

Continued …

IMPERIALISM and CHURCH’S Support of it (2 of 3)

Continuing with

MIDDLE EAST: Edward Said (1935-2003).

“We allow justly that the Holocaust has permanently altered the consciousness of our time”

“why do we not accord the same epistemological mutation in what imperialism has done, and what Orientalism continues to do?”

Marxism and Leninism opposed colonialism. Evangelism provided theological basis to counter this opposition, especially for those in the bastion of imperialism – the United States of America. To counter the resistance of the Islamic world, the evangelists called upon the medieval literature that we see echoed in this thread as well.

Liberation movements of the 1960’s helped nations slip out of physical colonial-hold. British and French empires collapsed and were forced back to the smallish confines of their homelands.

Humanity waved a ‘permanent’ goodbye to colonialism, but the colonialists did not understand or accept it.

Greed that fuelled colonialism now propped up a new monster: Imperialism, which relied on remote control operated through economic prowess as opposed to the physical control of the colonial times.

Nine elven was welcome by Neo-cons who with the evangelist-help lodged a campaign to prepare the US public to invade the Middle-East to regain monopoly of the natural resources that colonialists enjoyed for a century or more.

The evangelists spread hatred against Muslims using distortions of Islamic teachings they have traditionally used. They succeeded in reaching as far top as the top man who infamously initiated invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq with infamous foreword “God said to me George”…

The evangelist-support to greed of nations inflicted deaths, pain and miseries on the hundreds of thousands of civilians. The outcome has been painful for humanity.

The survivors of families wiped out by the carpet bombing in Afghanistan and Iraq and by drone attacks in the tribal areas of Pakistan got a motive for their heinous attacks on civilians.

The motive: revenge; and the justification: Religion.

The extremist fringe in the west uses these actions to point out what they call the inherent defect in Islam.

Continued ….