Thanks for your response, Joe.

Yes, I'm always conscious of the code of Taqiyya.

I mentioned oppressed Muslim women, more like "girls". And Mr Dalrymple is very mad at the ineptitude (and hipocrasy) of Western feminists. So am I.

Muslim mentality is totally one-sided. The irony of immigration and diversity, is that Muslims are totally against diversity. It is there way or none. They can criticise anything outside Islam till blue in the face but we can't criticise them. They really do have "nerve", especially as minorities in any country.

I am so angry of the West's failings on ignorance, avoidance and worst of all, dishonesty.

Well, we are currently told that another attack is likely, and with the anti-Islamic protests in Dresden - 17,000 protesters, it looks like we have a long battle ahead.

The natives do get restless eventually when human nature is discarded.

Thanks Joe for your comments, which are mostly valid but appear a bit contradictory.

On one side, it is said ;
a) distinguish.. between the Islamists that are terrorising the world and the everyday Muslim person that no one on this site has a problem with." And " "Nobody is demonising Muslims. Nobody has to"

b) Then at the same time, questions are raised on " contradictions in Quran" and "Are there parts of the Koran which justify what they are doing ?" And
"Muslim mentality is totally one-sided".

If "a" is right then "b" is out of place and if "b" is right "a" is not honest.

I am not against the questions being raised about Quran and Islam, which in any case are mostly natural and the persons raising these questions have every right to do so. It is the occasion of raising these questions that makes me uneasy. Raising them in this forum, gives me the impression that all Muslims are being put on spot and all are being lumped together for the crime of one lunatic.

Please creat a separate occasion for a focussed discussion on comparison of religions to find out which of the religions is most rational and practical and least violent.

On this forum, we should avoid putting the whole Muslim Community on the spot by criticizing their religion....that is if we are honest about distinguishing between the Islamists that are terrorizing the world and the everyday Muslim person that no one on this site has a problem with.

Hi McAdam/NC,

I don't recall ever saying that the "Muslim mentality is totally one-sided".

I don't know about a 'Muslim mentality' (is there one ?) but my point was the opposite to yours: that possibly there are contradictions in the Koran: that the overwhelming majority (I hope, but with Teqqia/Taqiya, how can anyone tell ?) adhere to the early parts (the Medina sections) of the Koran but that the Islamo-fascists adhere to other bits (the post-Mecca sections), or at least attempt to cite them to support their vile crimes.

Is that so ? Are there contradictory bits in the Koran ?

So I'm still puzzled: does the Koran sanction the murder of bus passengers, fishermen, quarry-workers, schoolchildren, captured soldiers, people from non-Muslim groups ?

Does the Koran justify any action performed by a member of a favoured group, on the whole Salafist Sunni Arabs, and permit them, or at least people acting in the name of Allah, to butcher others as if they were non-humans, sub-humans, untermensch ?

Does the Koran permit adherents to act like Nazis - thinking they have the right to exterminate non-adherents to their ghastly cause ?

Merry Christmas,

Joe

McAdam : "On this forum, we should avoid putting the whole Muslim Community on the spot by criticizing their religion....that is if we are honest about distinguishing between the Islamists that are terrorizing the world and the everyday Muslim person that no one on this site has a problem with."

Islam, if lived to the letter of its holy books, is a supremacist ideology. That is the basis upon which it is criticized. It is understood that the majority of Muslims do not live by the letter, but nor does the majority protest at the actions of of those that do, not to say the majority necessarily support them.

Where is the Muslim majority loudly denouncing violent actions? Are they cowered by them or do they sympathize with them? We can't know.

However, there is a road which can unite us, requiring a formal pledge by religious leaders of all churches, Christian included, to secular democracy in Australia.(search my other posts for more on this. Such a pledge requires the religious to act against those in their midst working counter to it. The pledge itself has public value in quelling extremism on all sides. I can think of nothing else that has a chance of depolarizing the attitudes growing with each violent incident, actual or thwarted.

Anybody got a better idea other than letting things roll on, with nasty consequences? Problem is, we don't yet seem to be at a stage where western authorities are calling it terrorism, referring to mentally deficiencies and lone-wolves rather than agents of supremacism incited by Islamic State.

Joe,

After expressing my view (on the 24th), in response to your question of the 23rd, I get another set of questions from you (on the 24th) that I will like to go over. I revisited your previous posts that I had only glanced at and noticed elements which will perhaps emerge more clearly during our discussion.

Three questions for you to start with:

Question 1: On your post of the 21st “After all, the Koran wasn't written down for a hundred years after his (Muhammad’s) death, there were competing versions of it floating around, and perhaps still are.”

Where did you get this information from that Quran was written hundred years after Muhammad’s death? Also tell us about the “competing versions” of Quran and what lead to conclude that they existed or exist?

Question 2: On your post of the 22nd “Yes, it seems a stereotypical Muslim has a very strong sense of shame and blame, and hurt, but not much of a sense of guilt, of having ever done anything wrong or hurtful to others.”

a) Who is a stereotypical Muslim? A terrorist or a common Muslim?

b) How were you able to measure that he/she does not have “much sense of guilt of having ever done anything wrong or hurtful to others”

Question 3: Your position against religion is directed against all religions (you could be an Atheist, which is fine with me) or it is exclusively directed against Islam?

The information you provide, and I hope that you do, will help me determine the direction of our discussion. I note interesting phrases you use – Taqiyyah, Medina option, Mecca option etc and would like to have a meaningful exchange on all these. Your answers will prepare me for that.

Joe, "Muslim mentality is totally one-sided". Is a quote, not from you but from one of your side. You write "but with Teqqia/Taqiya, how can anyone tell ?"

You are sure that all Muslims practice Teqqia/Taqiya and therefore unreliable. And you can't see the havoc half knowledge, such as yours about Islam, plays.

The point is that if I am not truthful, what worth is my word and what is the point in this discussion?

We need to come to discussion with clean hands; taking the other person truthful unless proven otherwise.
And how do we tell? Through inconsistencies. If a person says one thing and practices the other, he/she is not being truthful.
Let me point out an inconsistency of your side. Lot of words about "not having any problem with every day Muslims" and "not lumping them all together" and at the same time not a word of condemnation for the person who harassed an every day Muslim and unfairly lumped her with that lunatic hostage taker.
Do you see the inconsistency?

A time to pause, to take a deep breath and ponder; whose mentality is totally one sided?

Kindly do not address any post to me, if you are not sure wether I am truthful or not.
Thanks