And then there’s this other important characteristic of a puritan.
QUOTE:“According to puritans , Britain and France were the chief engineers behind the continuing conspiracy against Islam.But as the United States became the dominant superpower …it became the main culprit”

who could forget these earlier rants of yours:
“ The aging US on irreversible decline, with its young population growingly disgusted with Israel for its crimes against humanity and with the senior politicians for their support for Israel”

“Your Israel too has an uncle for a impartial arbitrator – ‘Uncle Sam’’” LOL (that LOL is especially for Hadi!)

And this is you and Hadi to a tee
“Puritans transform Islam into a creed for which the purpose is to negate and even spite other”

Please break the news to Hadi when he comes back from Mujahideen training.

To Hadi.

If the defeated Germans in 1945 had insisted that it was Germany's destiny to rule all of Europe in the name of a master race of blue eyed, blond haired people, Germany would still be an open aired prison camp.

If Japan in 1945 had insisted that it was going to use force to recreate the "Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere", Japan would still be an open air prison camp.

Recognise Israel's right to exist and start negotiations from there. Keep huffing and puffing over annihilating Israel, and any thing that Israel does for it's self defence is justifiable.

Reform your stupid war mongering religion, tell your mullah's to far cough, and use your wealth to raise the standard of living of your poverty stricken people.

LEGO:
I am still waiting on answers to those three specific questions I put to you - with a detailed preamble. Take your time :)

You say: "If the defeated Germans in 1945 had insisted that it was Germany's destiny to rule .........Germany would still be an open aired prison camp"

Possibly, yes. But as the above is to draw parallels with the current Palestine-Israel issue, I would put you in the same class as the Nazi Apologists of the time convincing the world of how futile it would be to resist the Nazi onslaught, how the "superior" 'blue eyed, blond haired people" should be left to rule -> "What's done is done" -> Resistance is *futile*, will only bring more death and destruction to those resisting, and exhorting the virtues of joining Nazis and hence 'Prospering'

NO! It is NOT OK to terrorize a population out of their towns and villages and then raze them to the ground, wipe off any trace of their existence, build and continue building your metropolises over it, and then shamelessly sell it to the world as merely some 'real estate development' which "gets developed everywhere" as someone on your side has alluded to this great injustice!
And then selectively inviting people from the whole world to settle - based on RELIGION alone - EXCEPT the locals who are treated worse than animals.

Jews have their holy places in the region and should be absolutely free to practice their religion as they see fit, as they were prior to the Zionists setting fire to the region.

Giving Palestinians their right to their own state DOES NOT EQUAL Extermination of all Jews in the region <- this suits Zionist propaganda so they don't have to negotiate, compromise and reach a settlement.

How many times do you want me to repeat the FACT that this is not a RELIGIOUS issue -> Certainly NOT from the Palestinian perspective!

Your comment re religious reform is redundant, has been addressed in previous posts already, moreover its like discussing reforming the philosophical roots of democracy during a MURDER TRIAL!

SPQR,

My recent posts mention:

1. Karen Armstrong – a world renowned authority on history of religions in the present era – who has totally demolished your web of falsehood you try to erect around Quran and Islam;

2. Gideon Levy – an Israel journalist with conscience strong enough to expose what Israel has done to Palestinians in their open-air- prison;

3. Stephen Hawking – The world’s leading scientist and man of conscience who has snubbed Israel for its crimes against Palestinians;

4. Professor Noam Chomsky, Institute Professor of Emeritus at Massachusetts Institute of Technology USA, who tells the world what Israel is doing to Palestinians is much worse than Apartheid; and the next person today is:

5. Uri Avnery – the former member of the Knesset and an Israeli writer who write weekly columns published in several countries and is the author of many books.

Here is what Uri Avnery has to say about your Israel:

• THE ISRAELI media are now totally subservient. There is no independent reporting. "Military correspondents" are not allowed into Gaza to see for themselves, they are willingly reduced to parroting army communiqués, presenting them as their personal observations.

• A huge herd of ex-generals are trotted out to "comment" on the situation, all saying EXACTLY THE SAME, EVEN USING THE SAME WORDS. The public swallows all this propaganda as gospel truth.

• The small voice of Haaretz, with a few commentators like Gideon Levy and Amira Hass, is drowned in the deafening cacophony.

• For viewers of the Israeli media, Hamas is the incarnation of evil

• I (Mr Avnet) escaped from this brainwashing by listening to both sides

Interestingly, I have not heard from you what you have to say about comments of the above people, lethal as they are to the Israeli position, in my recent posts.

Instead, with your typical Red Herring, you repeat your question that I have unequivocally answered more than once: WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF OCCUPIED TERRITORIES?
Continued ….

SPQR, Continued …….

I have said so many times, that Occupied Territories are the ones to be declared by an impartial third-party arbitration. Some of people I have noted above: Gideon Levy, Professor Noam Chomsky and others also talk about the occupied territories in clear terms. You repeat the question in a hope that I will give you my definition in contradiction to what I said before – THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

And the other item of your Red Herring, you repeat so many times in your post is the ‘puritans”. What these puritans subscribe to is an extremely abhorred version of Islam by the mainstream Muslims and ONE CANNOT AGREE MORE with Khaled Abou El Fadl in this regard.

As I said in my post dated 13th, El Fadl’s book “is about (as its title suggests) reclaiming Islam from what the Author calls “puritans”. Not only there is nothing wrong with it but let me also inform you that a huge number of Muslim scholars today rightfully advocate a necessity for this.”

Your push on puritans is to defame Islam and by extension say that because of that Palestinians deserve what is happening to them. For this, you are willing to forget the fact that extremism exists in other religions as well and is equally despised by the mainstream. You also forget the likes of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef – teacher revered by top Islaeli leadership of today “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that they have not place in the world – only to serve the people of Israel”. With this position, he is made the head of Shas’s Council of Torah Sages and a senior Sephardi adjudicator.

If you try to repeat the answered questions, I will only say Red Herring and return to the emerging long list people of conscience in the world and what they have to say on the main subject.

Why don’t you admit that you have run out of arguments after the readers can see through you and irrefutable mass of evidence is piling in front of you.

NC,

There is a strong taste of the rabid zealot in your approach this issue (and most others I'd hazard a guess) -- and which should serve as warning to the greater Australian community.

You come at us speaking the language of human rights , fairness and justice.

However, when we point out Hamas’ history of deceit you pass over it without the slightest acknowledgement. To even question Hamas’ claims will get one labelled a “Zionist troll”.

You cherry pick critics of Israel and brandish them as if they seal your case. And you think it his especially telling that some of these critics are still inside Israel. But when asked as to why we can’t find parallel examples under Hamas -- or for that matter most Arab states—you tell us unrepentantly that citizens of such polities don’t need such rights.

You boast that Islam has a squeaky clean history but when we cite sources that tell otherwise. You dismiss them as hate sites and cling for dear life to the much debunked Karen Armstrong: http://www.newenglishreview.org/Hugh_Fitzgerald/Karen_Armstrong%3A_The_Coherence_of_Her_Incoherence/ . One could well imagine in an NC controlled Oz, Karen Armstrong would be the only source we were allowed to read .

Similarly, with Khaled About El Fadi, when I first brought him into the discussion you chimed <<The book is about … reclaiming Islam from what the Author calls “puritans”. Not only there is nothing wrong with it but let me also inform you that a huge number of Muslim scholars today rightfully advocate a necessity for this.>>

But when we read that Khaled About El Fadi diagnosed the main problem with Islam was the dominance of what he called puritans and he defined the key characteristics of such puritans as
i) A commitment to removing the state of Israel.
ii) The seeing of the US as main party to some world-wide anti-Islamic conspiracy.
iii) The transforming Islam into a creed to negate and even spite others (you and Hadi to a Tee!)

After that revelation, you didn’t want a bar of Khaled About El Fadi!