NC & co

OK guys for one last time:

<<whosoever thinks that US supports Israel must be a puritan>>
NO.

<<Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Venezuela have said they "energetically condemn the disproportionate use of force by the Israeli army … all puritans>>
NO.

<<The world press is shouting against Israel at the pitch of its voice >>*
And NO. (that last one for the *THIRD* time -reference Junaid's opening lines to find out why)

According Khaled Abou El Fadl a puritan is a COMBINATION of three factors:
1) They oppose the very existence of Israel
2) They see the West as engaged in some conspiracy against Islam and often attribute the woes of the Muslim world to outside interference , &
3) They transform Islam into a creed to negate and even spite others

South American criticism of Israel however loud is not up there with the likes of NC who denies Israel the right to exist --but doesn't want to come clean and openly admit it lest alienates his liberal allies.

NC & co (continued)

Now here’s the crux: ZIONISM IS NOT APPROPRIATE IN THE MODERN WORLD

Here it is again: ZIONISM IS NOT APPROPRIATE IN THE MODERN WORLD.

BUT NEITHER IS ISLAM-- They are peas from the same pod.

And anything that can be said about Israel resembling an apartheid state can more so be said about most Islamic states. Historically Islam has had its dihimmi class with it separate status, taxes and clothing for non-believers. And whilst this may not be as it was in past. Non-Muslims in majority polities today are very much second class citizens.And non-Muslims in majority Muslim polities are regularly subjected to harassment, and violence.

[but of course all of this will be "hate speech" to one-eyed NC!]

And after what I have seen/read on this forum. If there was a village of Hadi’s or NC’s (or a village of those self-righteous aspiring jihadis as seen on ABC INSIGHT last night) close by. It would be wise to have a defensible border between their sense of justice and entitlement and yours.And I’ll bet that many in our outer suburbs are thinking the same –I JUST HOPE OUR IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES ARE LISTENING.

PS had to laugh at this (from McAdam) <<People do get affected by what they read and hear. After all how many of us are like Professor Noam Chomsky …>> LOL
Chomsky has been a one-eyed Lefty from way,way back...few outside Lefty and Islamic circles give him and credence(on issues of politics).

Cheers guys have a nice day …over and out.

SPQR,

The two persons of the conscience for this post are:

1. Antony Loewenstein, a Melbourne born journalist and the Author of a widely read book entitled “My Israel Question”; and
2. Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu known for his role against apartheid, and the Nobel Prize for Peace he won in 1984.

I start with Mr Loewenstein citing a review note on his book by John Mearsheimer, Senior Professor of Politics, University of Chicago:

“What most Australians should do is go out and BUY THE BOOK AND READ IT, SO THEY CAN HEAR BOTH SIDES of the debate about how Israel treats the Palestinians”

The book written in 2006, predicts with amazing accuracy the Zionists actions and the world reaction that must follow. Since 2006, the Israeli brutalities have increased manyfold and so has the world’s outrage at Israel.

Intriguingly, SPQR, you will see your attitude and statements in some of Mr Loewenstein’s observations which I will reproduce here in quotes (the book and his website http://antonyloewenstein.com are the sources – ask me for a specific one if you have any doubt)

• “Mainstream Zionism wants to completely shield Jews from the uncomfortable facts of the Israeli occupation and Palestinian self-determination.” – Ask him to define for you what the occupied territories are.

• “The decades-old ability of Zionist groups to manage the public narrative of Israeli victimhood is breaking down. Damning critics has therefore become a key method of control.” – Do you see yourself here SPQR, critics of Israeli actions in this thread were lefties, extremists, puritans etc?

• "whereas these smear tactics once inspired fear in many people, now they just inspire pity. They no longer work." - Will you pay head to it?

• Quotes the co-Author of “The Israel Lobby”, Stephen Walt, who said that “he couldn't understand why more American Jews didn't realize the cliff Israel was running toward. Did they not see that repression in the occupied territories had defined Israel in the eyes of the world?” – The world conscience and its position towards Israeli brutalities, we have been discussion.

Continued ………

SPQR,
Continued …Mr Loewenstein from last post

• “A thinking, more enlightened Judaism is emerging, a necessity in the face of apartheid realities. The cause is human rights, not Zionist exclusion.”, Do you note the cause? Human rights – not your discoveries on imperfections of the creed of the occupied!

• “Defining a humane Judaism in the 21st century means condemning the brutal military occupation in the West Bank and resisting the ongoing siege of Gaza.” Your position is incoherent for the 21st century, do what he says for your own conscience.

• “During an AIPAC conference in Washington, Executive Director Howard Kohr warned the 7,000-plus crowd that the global movement to "delegitimize Israel" was gathering steam.”

• On Zionist reaction campaign against award of Sydney Peace Prize to Palestinian human rights activist, Hanan Ashrawi, “The campaign was a disaster and convinced large swathes of the Australian public that many Jews were intolerant of debate.”

• On Zionist reaction campaign against award of Sydney Peace Prize to journalist and author John Pilger “But bullying organisers of the award and threatening them isn’t a perception problem; it’s how the Zionist lobby does business”. Do you see a comment on you?

There is a growing impression that Israel has lost the propaganda war. The weak Palestinian voice cannot match the huge propaganda machinery backing Israel. But the facts are the only strength of the Palestinian view point. In the words of Mr Loewenstein “facts have an uncomfortable way of seeping back into view”.

The allowable length of the post forces me to briefly mention Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu’s call for global boycott of Israel in an article for Haaretz entitled
“My plea to the people of Israel: LIBERATE YOURSELVES BY LIBERATING PALESTINE”

This post also addresses your post of the 15th which hardly carries anything new other than:

• Your repeated attempts of damning the critics (dismissing the critics as lefties etc again brought up in you post of the 15th) so vividly identified by Mr Loewenstein; and
• Characteristic lack of decency and civility, let alone grace in your words.

SPQR,
Today’s people of conscience are two renowned US academics:

1. John J. Mearsheimer, Department of Political Science , University of Chicago; and
2. Stephen M. Walt, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University

They are the authors of a thoroughly researched and highly credible paper entitled “THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND U.S. FOREIGN POLICY”. The paper also published in London Review of Books (2006) is available at http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/A0040.pdf for free.

If you don’t have about an hour to download and read, the following 5-minute gist will give you the key information relevant to the ongoing discussion in this thread:

On US SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL:

• The level of material and diplomatic support US provides to Israel “has no equal in American political history. Why has the United States been willing to set aside its own security in order to advance the interests of another state?"

• One would expect special US interests, but “Instead, the overall thrust of U.S. policy in the region is due almost entirely to U. S.
domestic politics, AND ESPECIALLY TO THE ACTIVITIES OF THE ISRAEL LOBBY.”

• “This extraordinary generosity might be understandable if Israel were a vital
strategic asset or if there were a compelling moral case for sustained U.S.
backing. But neither rationale is convincing”

You will not stop condemning as ‘puritans’ those who say so today. But the word is OUT,
you know it now.

On KNOWING the LOBBY:

• “Given the strategic importance of the Middle East and its potential impact on
others, both Americans and non-Americans need to understand and address the
Lobby’s influence on U.S. policy”

• “Some readers will find this analysis disturbing, but the facts recounted here are
not in serious dispute among scholars.”

On Level of DIPLOMATIC SUPPORT:

• “Since 1982, the United States has vetoed 32 United Nations Security Council
resolutions that were critical of Israel, a number greater than the combined total
of vetoes cast by all the other Security Council members.”
• “It also blocks Arab states’ efforts to put Israel’s nuclear arsenal on the International Atomic Energy Agency’s agenda.”

Continued 1……

SPQR, Continued 1…. On Israel Lobby

• “Washington has given Israel wide latitude in dealing with the occupied territories, The West Bank and Gaza Strip, even when its actions were at odds with stated U.S. policy.”

On the MYTH of VICTOMHOOD

• “Israel is often portrayed as weak and besieged, a Jewish David surrounded by a
hostile Arab Goliath. This image has been carefully nurtured by Israeli leaders
and sympathetic writers, but the opposite image is closer to the truth.”
• “The final moral argument portrays Israel as a country that has sought peace at
every turn and showed great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by
contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. This narrative—which is
endlessly repeated by Israeli leaders and American apologists such as Alan
Dershowitz—is yet another myth.”

On TERRORISM

• “Palestinian terrorism ....is largely a response to Israel’s prolonged campaign to colonize the West Bank and Gaza Strip.”

• “the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel, not the other way around.”

On the STRATEGIES of the LOBBY:

Tactics of the Lobby, obvious in private (?) Zionists (SPQRs of this thread) at least for last two items, are:

• “Influencing Congress” ;
• “Influencing the Executive”;
• “Manipulating the Media”;
• “Think Tanks That Think One Way”;
• “Policing Academia”;
• “Demonizing the Palestinians”; and
• “The Great Silencer - the charge of anti-Semitism”;

On IMPACT on US

“Unquestioned support for Israel also weakens the U.S. position outside the
Middle East. Foreign elites consistently view the United States as too supportive
of Israel, and think its tolerance of Israeli repression in the occupied territories is
morally obtuse and a handicap in the war on terrorism.”

After waiting for over 48 hours for response to my last post (16 Aug 4:52 PM), I have added the above post. My research will be on hold to eventually continue if you respond.
Summary of my quotes is on the next post, adding today the great man of the century -Nelson Mandela.

Continued 2……