The bitterness in our debate is..avoidable. The attacks on each other's; person, beliefs, history or people, are uncalled for. They take us away from the topic.
The topic being, Junaid's statement that the indiscriminate killing in Gaza is being cheered on, in the style of spectators of a Roman Colosseum and is being trivialized as cutting the grass.

The present discussion, on the justifications for Israeli actions , is a separate topic. Israel supporters are bound to be affected by mainstream media in USA, which is siding with Israel. People do get affected by what they read and hear. After all how many of us are like Professor Noam Chomsky to have; the ability of making independent judgement? And how many of us invest their time to find the truth first hand like Anna Baltzer of IWPS (please google)? I am sure some would be convinced that siding with the "terrorist Hamas" is immoral. Others are saying, Israel has no legitimate reason for the genocide. Both sides can not convince each other, as it is impossible to do so, through the kind of conversation we are having. So why even try it? Why not just agree to disagree and focus on the point of primary importance to all of us individually? The point of having to answer for one's own actions. Those who choose to side with Israel, have the right to do so. They just aught to be prepared for the consequences of their choice as I have to be for mine.

To me, current situation in Gaza, is similar to the situations repeatedly faced by humanity before:-
1) Most people supported Racial Segregation in USA and some who were a tiny minority had a dream of equality.
2) Most supported what is now known as Nazi Holocaust of Jews. Majority meekly acquiesced the Nazi actions and others in a tiny minority opposed it.
3) And very recently, as most of us saw it first hand, majority supported the Apartheid in South Africa and others, a tiny minority, opposed it.

Time showed who was on the right side.
Cont!

Cont?
I have made my decision, I am with the oppressed people of Gaza/Palestine who are being subjected to Segregation, Apartheid and Holocaust, all at once. I have to be prepared to face the consequences of the choice that I make; when I look in the mirror and when I have to answer my children and their children if asked tomorrow, who's side I was on, when it was happening.?

I know this debate is already going on,right now, within Israel and in the Jewish communities world wide, particularly in USA. And that the "killer gene" the tendency to depression and tendency to self harm, is imbedded in all of us. What we do today, may make us feel good about ourselves tomorrow or depress us, to death. The rate of suicide in USA is increasing, where it is being termed as a "silent epidemic", particularly in the veterans of Iraq and Afghan Wars and in Israel, where number one cause of death in IDF is; not rockets, not bullets, not suicide attacks but suicides by the IDF members themselves. And why in IDF? Because they know what the reality is, as the rest of Israel is treated by the controlled media, like mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed manure. Then there are the voices emanating from within the Jewish community that Israel is not threatened from without as much as from within; by the reliance of the Zionist on the use of state terrorism, rather than reason.

And when one hears "logic" like "Palestinians are not subhuman but they virtually have no rights" or the use of abusive language, one is clear that there is no reasonable argument left with the Zionists. It is not about winning or loosing this debate but about bracing up to bear the consequences of individual and collective decisions. Please brace up, and that applies to all of us, there is no escaping it.

Best regards

There was an emperor of a story, who had no clothes; every one but the emperor knew that he had no clothes.

Zionist is like that emperor. He thinks he is the emperor because of the make believe
"sole purpose of non Jew being none but service to him".

Every one but him, knows it is an absurd lie.

Lest I am misunderstood. I make distinction between Zionist and the ordinary Jewish people.

Some among Jewish people have made commendable contributions to the art and science and they have done the whole humanity proud of their achievements. What problem can the human race have sharing this planet with them, which in any case is a commonwealth. I refer to the people who reciprocate by sharing the planet with others as equals.

As I said earlier too, they are our kith and kin as the rest of the humanity is theirs.

Best regards

Ok, Let's parse McAdam's peculiar logic.

McAdam claims we are going off topic, then goes off topic himself by launching into a philosophical discussion on how wrong the "majority" usually are. He also asks why we are even bothering to discuss this issue at all since we will never agree. My response to that is, that it seems to confirm my view that people like McAdam have an unshakeable belief that the majority are usually wrong, and only the deep thinking moral minority like himself are on "the right side of history." Why discuss anything at all? The moral minority knows what is right, so the majority may as well shut up.

Naturally, this superiority of view would place McAdam as one of that deep thinking minority who are so right about everything. Such a view is indicative of a person who has a deep psychological need to think that they are morally and intellectually superior to the Great Unwashed. The danger for McAdam, is that anyone presenting any potty argument in such as way that it appeals to his self image as a superior person, will find a receptive convert in McAdam. If he thinks that superior thinking people think that way, then he will reflexively accept any nonsense without thinking about it.

And naturally he wishes his opponents would just shut up. He gets very uncomfortable when his sociol inferiors use logic and reasoned argument to counter the twaddle that has been so effortlessly inculcated into his head. It is not supposed to be that way. After all, every superior thinking person like himself knows for sure that the majority Great Unwashed are as thick as bricks, so this should not be happening. McAdam seems to have a real problem with the democratic ideal that the majority should rule if he thinks that way.

McAdam uses examples to display how the "majority" are usually wrong, these examples can be looked at differently if he ever took off his ideological blinkers

1. "Most people" in the USA still support racial segregation, McAdam, if the current phenomenon of "white flight" from those areas infested with problematic minorities is any guide. The problem minorities move in, and the whites and Asians get out. And they take their brains and economic know how with them. The region they vacated then becomes yet another crime and welfare prone ethnic ghettoe that any intelligent person would keep well clear of. Google "Detroit" on Youtube.

2. "Most people" supported the Holocaust of the Jews. I presume he means the Germans? Well, I think his analysis needs a bit of work. The Germans may have been happy to see the Jews deported, but that hardly supports the idea that "the majority" of Germans knew anything about the gas chambers. Hitler and the Nazis were not democrats, a fact which McAdam must grudgingly admire. Like McAdam, they had a low an opinion of the "majority", and they knew how to use the German ABC and 18C type censorship to hide the facts, stifle debate, and sway opinion.

3. "Most people" supported Apartheid. I presume he means the white South Africans? I would have thought that with hindsight today, the idea that black Africans are the equal in every way to white and Asian people would have had its day. With whites and Asians continuing to flee Africa, it is self evident that Africa is reverting to barbarism. But in a way, McAdam is right. 'Most people" in the western world were once enamoured of the concept of racial equality by virtue of the fact that they had never encountered any people from the races that they presumed were equal. And it is a cultural universal that people can get very self righteous over moral concepts that do not affect them personally.

Finally, McAdam has an indirect shot at me, by claiming that I think Palestinians should have not have equal rights. Palestinian males do not give equal rights to Palestinian females but that goes right over the head of McAdam. if they did, we might end this war.