Dear Jayb,

Actually, it's my fault. I missed giving the end
of that quote. Levy did add :

"After this solution will take place, we just may realise
that it's better for both sides to federate or become
one state."

Despit having a very high profile in Israel, Levy's
media appearances have significiantly decreased in recent
years. Levy used to have a weekly television show:
but is now rarely asked to participate on radio or
television talk shows: "They take someone from the extreme
Right only ... There have been tensions at "Haaretz"
but generally they can live with me..." Although Levy
receives hate mail, including death threats, he believes
that some reaction is better than indifference."

Levy holds the Israeli media heavily responsible for
hiding the true face of the occupation and showing
"our" victims but never "their" victims in the same light.

"We have a deeper-problem of self-censorship, not because
somebody tells them to be like this, but because they
believe that their place is to sit in the bulldozer who
ruins the house and not with the families who are left behind.
If they show something they will show the bulldozer and not
the families who are left. They will tell you about the
so-called reasons why the house was demolished but they
will never check. They will say today Israel assassinated a
big terrorist, but they will never check whether he was such a
big terrorist. Every settler who is scratched by a stone
will get two pages in a newspaper and nobody will mention
the Palestinian family who lost three children. It's easier
for Israelis to dismiss the journalist Amira (Hass) because
she lives in Ramallah and not here. With me it is harder
because I am here and part of it."

"I think deep in their hearts, most Israelis are really
racist." Levy compares present-day Israel to apartheid in
South Africa.

Dear Jayb, you wrote " Allah refers to non Muslims in the Koran as " composed of "base matter." (Because) "I have seen similar & heard many Imams on uTube expounding that very thing."

That's it? Unnamed uTube clips as a proof for the exact wording of Quran?

You'll agree that reference to the primary source is necessary, to ascertain the truth, particularly in matters of such important nature. So please consult Quran, which is readily available every where and kindly do guide me with the exact wording and reference; I'll be grateful and waiting.

Best regards

NC (continued)
Now on to those “distractions” which you keep introducing --but blaming others for.

You cheery picked --ONE source–which talks of a ONE tiny fragment of history-- and in true fundamentalist style declared it proves Islam was all lovey-dovey with the Jews and by extension everyone else . A pretty good sign that you have a rusted-on belief system not open to challenge or modification!

Then you say: <<The modern Europe in its childhood days was exposed to an Islam introduced by Crusaders. >> A rather strange definition of “modern” –but we’ll let that pass! It’s a safe guess you chose that date/event because it allows you to play to the accompaniment of that old Islamic apologia that the crusades were an aggressive invasion of peace loving Muslim territory.

I have left the crusades as a marker , but added a more representative,though still, yet, the tiniest sliver of how Islam *introduced* itself:
The First Crusade (1096–1099)
1453 Turks capture and rape Constantinople..
1456 Turks capture Athens.
1456 Turks attack Belgrade
1463 Turks conquer Bosnia.
1467 Turks conquer Herzegovina ..
1480 Turks attack Italy .
1492 Turks invade Hungary.
1492 Finally, Moorish occupation & colonisation of Spain is thrown off!
1493 Turks invade Dalmatia and Croatia are invaded by the Turks.
1518 Khayar al-Din btter known as Barbarossa, assumes command off the Muslim corsair fleet of the Barbary pirates. He would go on to terrorise Western shipping murdering --or kidnapping European mariners & selling them to Arab slavers.
1529 First attack and siege on Vienna (Austria)
1565 Turks attack Malta

As for: << I myself saw few books on Islam in California University library US which talked about anything but Islam.>> :O
Why ever should they?
Islam’s main relevance in the West today is that the “study” of it provides an all too easy leg-up for *SECOND/THIRD RATE ACADEMICS* who are seeking to acquire a seat on the gravy train by playing at identity politics (since they can’t cut it in any constructive field).

To McAdam

I know that the Israelis practiced terrorism to get their nation started but hardly equates to approval of terrorists of any group today doing the same thing.

Israel exists, and that is a complete and total affront to Muslims, who like the Nazis believe that where one of their soldiers stand, that is their territory forever. That is the only reason why they want Israel exterminated. If somebody wanted to exterminate me, then I really do not give a damn for their human rights. The entire Middle East was once primarily Christian with a lot a Jews, Samaritans and Zoroastrians. Islam has ethically cleansed almost the whole lot of them, as is presently working on the survivors. The message Muslims gave them was get out, convert, become a second class citizen paying extortionate taxes, or die. How you can defend Muslims when one of their victims turns the table on them is beyond me.

Here is some Koran and Sura's for you.

Koran 70:39
We have created the unbelievers out of base matters.

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

9:123: “O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allâh is with those who are the pious.”

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

SPQR,
The readers, I am sure, notice two types of posts:

• Graffiti posts: full of foul language, totally devoid of substance and carrying statements they would never dare to make in front of real audience who can see them (by SPQRs); and

• Responsible posts: polite, reasoning, full of substance and carrying statements that can be presented in front of any audience (by SteeleRedux, Foxy, McAdam and few others)

You have not answered my question as to why you fear the third party-arbitration.

In your second post of 6 Aug, characteristically devoid of substance, you don’t make a fact-based comment on Karen Armstrong’s observations contained in my post of 5 Aug on one of the main topics of your Graffiti posts. Instead, you partly list some events from 1453-1565 totally ignoring the havoc the Portuguese and Spanish forces bombing the coastal cities initiated in Africa and India in the same period and other Colonial powers continued and perfected it in Africa, Asia and South-East Asia for next over 3 centuries.

Back to the main subject: You are aware of what another person of conscience, Gideon Levy –a known Israeli journalist, wants the world to know about the ground realities:

• “occupation has become more brutal”- (correct your definition of occupation, SPQR);
• “kids are being killed like flies”;

• Israelis have been conditioned to believe that “Palestinians are not human beings”- an observation echoing in the Graffiti posts;

• Israel “with one of the most brutal and cruel military occupation in the world isn’t a democracy”;

• “It’s all Hamas’ fault, right Israel?”, How close to Junaid’s observation; and
• With all that “Israel’s hands are clean and their consciences are quite – SO QUIET YOU COULD CRY”.

The reality has found its way even into the Israeli and US press through people of conscience like Levy. As for the press of the rest of the world, it is in a state of shock on brutalities unprecedented in the modern memory.

Step out of your make-belief world, have a look at the world press and witness the reality

Dear Jayb,

Your vitriol, ignorance, and bias, makes a mockery
of reasoned discussion in this forum.

Shame on you!