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Is being a scientist compatible with believing in God? : Comments
By George Virsik, published 19/7/2013Conflicts arise only when religion is seen as ersatz-science and/or science as ersatz-religion.
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Posted by david f, Friday, 11 October 2013 4:25:02 PM
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david,,the credit..is all..due to george..
he posted the link..to it..*about 3 days ago.. anyhow..leaving..off..the gossip..bit's.. we discover....that even..non-believing..people go to..'heaven' <<..At length I got a chance/of..a few words..with the vicar/alone,..and said:“‘Vicar,..I’m going..to ask you..a plain question..between man and man,..and you can/'rely.on my discretion. Do you believe..in the..truths of..the Christian-religion..which you have_to..teach,..or are you,..like so many..learned divines..personally..convinced..the whole/thing..is a myth, <<>..and if so,..do you really..think there.is..a God,..Heaven and Hell,..and so forth?’ <<..“He pressed..his two/hands..together..and said/unctuously: “‘A..great deal..turns/on..what you mean..by believe. A clergyman..has/a..great_responsibility. He..must not..say anything..which may/cause a..weaker-brother..to stumble.’ “I..pressed/him..closely..on the point,..and/at..length..he said: “‘Personally..I have long/thought..that the tale..of Christ..is a myth,..a beautiful/myth,..and I am..sure..St.Paul.;.thought so. I..don’t think..the early Christians/ever thought/otherwise. They..regarded it..as a symbol..which taught..a great truth,..just as/the ancient..Egyptians preached/of..the death..and resurrection..of Osiris. I..don’t imagine..for a moment/that..an *educated/Egyptian..believed that Osiris..ever really..lived;..it was/a..parable....Unfortunately the ignorant..gradually grew/'to..regard the parable..as literally true,..and..during..the/Middle-Ages..this belief..became universal. Today..we/are..by degrees recovering/the truth..and clearing/away..the dross/of superstition,..but of course..we cannot proclaim/these facts..from the..house-tops. Indeed,..if we did,..we should..probably/be called..agnostics, and turned..out/of..our livings...Still,..quietly,..we are doing..a great work..a..great_work.’ “I said,..‘If.. then,..the whole/of..Christianity..is based..on/a parable,..of what use/is..the..Church?’ “He...‘Of the..very greatest,..my friend. It /is..a great moral-force...That *EDITED* <<..Many men..who..at present are/disgusted..at what..they rightly regard..as puerile fables..will rally to/it..as a great..*social-factor.for the moral u/plifting..of the masses.’..“‘I think some people//are inclined to..lay too much.stress..on its social value,..and..overlook..the importance/of..its moral influence.. but they*..are materialists;..thank Heaven,..*I am..not one/of..them.’ “I...‘Do you/think..there are..such places..as Heaven and Hell,..and is..there after all..such..a being..as God?’ “He...‘With regard.to..the last point,..I think..we are not.as yet..in a position..to give a/definite answer.. We are at liberty to hold..our own views...To some people..the conception..of a God..of some sort..is necessary,..like the parables..of Christ,..or they would/cease..to..obey the moral law; but,..personally,..while I would/not..be so.presumptuous..as to say there/is..no God,..I do not consider..one is essential...I consider that..this world..is governed by/laws,..and the moral law is the highest...Those who.... anyhow..you/get..the gist.. but..why post/re-post..clear error..[gossip] Posted by one under god, Friday, 11 October 2013 4:46:33 PM
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You..neither created..yourself,..nor controlled..your..own creation.
By..introducing levels..[qualifications/judgments]..into your own perception,..you opened..the way..for..body-image..earthly-distortions. The..lack of love..(or..prioritization..of ..faulty..need's/based-orientation's)..has led..to your..particular personal-qualifications...[bias] (injurious Objectification)..errant choices..CAN/BE..corrected..within..the existent framework,..and would HAVE..[eventually]...to be..in the larger interest..of overall..spiritual-progress. The situation..is questionable..largely because/of..its inherent vulnerability..to fantasy-gratification..Doing the/best..you can/WITHIN..this..limitation is/probably..the best corrective measure..at our present stage. Any..relationship..you have/undertaken..for whatever reasons..becomes a responsibility...If you shift..your own needs,..some amount of corresponding/shift..in the need-orientation..of the other person..MUST result,.. This will be..beneficial,..even if..the partner/was..originally attracted..to you..BECAUSE of your..disrespect. Teaching/devices..which are..totally..alien to..a learner’s perceptual/system..are usually merely disruptive...Transfer depends/on..SOME common elements..in..the new/situation..which are understandable..[comprehensible]..in terms..of..the old...known/knowns <<..Man..can/never_control..the effects..of fear..of himself, because..he has CREATED..the fear..and..thus..believes in..*what he creates. In_attitude,..then,*though/not..in content*,..he resembles/his..own Creator,..who _has..perfect faith..*in*..His Creations..because_he Created_them... All..creation..rests/on..loving-belief,..and..the belief..in the creation..produces..its existence...[gives..it..life]-[animus] <<..This is/why..it is*..possible..for a man ..to believe what..is not true..for anyone else...It is true.for him..because/it is..made..and sustained..BY his..belief*... Every_aspect..of fear/proceeds..from/upside-down_perception. The..TRULY..creative/devote their efforts..to correcting/this... The..neurotic..devotes his..to ...ir-rationalizations/compromises...The psychotic..tries to escape..by..*establishing.the truth/of..his_own errors.>> but is..too-close..to/see..it <<..It/is..most-difficult..to/free him.by ordinary means.. only because he/i..more stable..in his*denial..than of..any/other truth. 42.The-miracle..makes/o..distinction..among the..various/degrees..of..self-misconception...It//is/a..device/for perception-correction..which is..effective..*quite apart/from..either the-degree..or the..miss-direction..of/the..error. This..is its TRUE..non-discrimination...the concept..of size/space/time..exist..only in a plane..that is itself unreal...Since the/miracle..aims at..*RESTORING reality,..it would hardly/be..useful if/it..were bound by..the laws/of..the same error it aims..to correct. Only/man..makes that kind/of..error...It/is..an example..of/the “foolish-consistency”..his/own..false..beliefs/have..engendered. Both..the power..and the persistent/strength..of man’s creative-will must/be..understood,..before/the real meaning..of denial..can be appreciated..and..be abolished..by truth..of love. Denial..is NOT..mere negation. It..is..a..miss-creation...[wrought..in error] While..the mis-creation..is_NECESSARILY..believed..in by..its own creator>> see/gone-west http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf pages..98-110 <<,..it does/not exist..at all at..the level..of true-Creation. 43.The miracle..compares..the_creations/of man with-in..the higher/levels..of creation,..accepting..what is/in ACCORD..with love..as..falsifiably..true,..and..thus via sure/conscious..choosing..of rejecting..the DISCORDANT/injurious/hurtful..as false. This..is/why..it is..so closely..associated/with..validity. Real_validity..is//both true..AND..useful,..or..better, it/is..useful..BECAUSE..it/is ..true. All aspects..of fear..are untrue,..*because they..DO/NOT exist..at the higher creative-levels,..and therefore..do not exist..at all... To..whatever/extent..a man/is..willing/to..submit his-core/beliefs..to/the real-test..of validity,..ONLY..to/that extent..are his..miss-perceptions..healed..(or..corrected.) In..sorting out..the \/false..from/the-true, the miracle..proceeds..much along..the lines..suggested very correctly..by B.,..i.e.: If perfect-love..casts out fear, And..if fear exists,..Then..*there..is NOT..perfect love. But..Only perfect-love..really exists. Therefore.. if there is..fear,..be/aware..it creates..a state which does/not..exist...of love reasoned/uses.... Believe..THIS..and/you WILL-be free...Only*God..can establish..this solution,..for..THIS..faith..IS/His gift. Man..must/contribute ...to/his readiness..here..as/elsewhere. The..readiness..for faith,..as/for..everything-else..that/is true,[of love]..entails/the..two-steps necessary..for/the release..from fear. Denial ..of fear,..in human-terms,..is-a/strong defense because..it entails..two levels..of/]..error: That/truth..CAN-be..denied and..That..the absence..of truth..can be..effective..[affected*].. recall..the law (E)=immortal/eternal/omni-present [the pre-sent]..the presence..always..present* continues..page43 http://miraclevision.com/acim/urtext/acim-urtext-2003-upe-ready-edition.pdf Posted by one under god, Friday, 11 October 2013 8:55:02 PM
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Georges Brassens, . During his lifetime (22 October 1921 – 29 October 1981) Georges Brassens became the most popular singer-songwriter poet in France and remains an icon of popular French culture still today. Brassens was born in the town of Sète, a town in southern France near Montpellier. He is considered one of France's most accomplished post-war poets. He has also set to music poems by poets such as Louis Aragon (Il n'y a pas d'amour heureux) and Victor Hugo(La Légende de la Nonne, Gastibelza). As a child, he hoped to enrol at a music conservatory, but his mother insisted that he could only do so if his grades improved. Consequently, he never learned to read music. A poor student, Brassens performed badly in school. Alphonse Bonnafé, Brassens's ninth-grade teacher, strongly encouraged his gift for poetry and creativity. By Brassens's admission, Bonnafé's influence on his work was enormous: "We were thugs, at fourteen, fifteen, and we started to like poets. That is quite a transformation. Thanks to this teacher, I opened my mind to something bigger. Later on, every time I wrote a song, I asked myself the question: would Bonnafé like it?" At age seventeen, he was implicated in crimes that would prove to be a turning point in his life. To get money, Georges and his gang started to steal from their families and others. Georges stole a ring and a bracelet from his sister. The police found and caught him, which caused a scandal. The young men were publicly characterized as "high school mobsters" or "scum". Some of the perpetrators, unsupported by their families, spent time in prison. Brassens received a suspended sentence and was placed on probation. He was expelled from school. He began working at a Renault car factory. In May 1940 the factory was bombed by the Germans. During World War II, he was forced to work in a labour camp at a BMW aircraft engine plant in Basdorf near Berlin. A year after he arrived in Basdorf Brassens was granted a ten day furlough. He never returned. . (Continued) ... . Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 12 October 2013 12:46:45 AM
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(Continued) ... . In Paris, he had to find a hideout, but he knew very few people. Finally, Jeanne Planche, a neighbour of his aunt in Paris, came to his aid and offered to put him up as long as necessary. Jeanne lived with her husband Marcel in a hovel at 9 impasse Florimont, with no gas, water or electricity. Brassens accepted... and stayed there for twenty two years. He once said on the radio: "It was nice there, and I have gained since then quite an amazing sense of discomfort." According to one of his friends, "Jeanne had a crush on Georges (she was 30 years older than him) and Marcel knew nothing, as he started to get drunk at eight in the morning." In 1946 he teamed-up with anarchist activists and read Mikhaïl Bakounine, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Pierre Kropotjine. Brassens joined the Anarchist Federation and wrote some virulent, black humour-tinged articles for Le Libertaire, the Federation's paper. He said in an interview: "I'm an anarchist, so much so that I always cross at the zebra crossing to avoid arguing with the police. I'm not very fond of the law. As Léautaud (a French writer and theatre critic) would say, I could do without laws. I think most people couldn’t." His songs often decry hypocrisy and self-righteousness in the conservative French society of the time, especially among the religious, the well-to-do, and those in law enforcement. Here is a sample of his poetry: “The century we live in is a rotten century. Nothing but cowardice and baseness. The greatest murderers attend the greatest masses And are the greatest favourites of the greatest kings. Homage from the author to those who understood this, And "merde"* to the others.” He was awarded the Grand Prix of Poetry by the French Academy in 1967. . Here are some of Brassens’ songs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rslShTbqNbo (les copains) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiZaJRiOMMU (bancs publics) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gznDOMKeWkA (quand on est con) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GA0ue9F79o (l’Auvergnat) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWyQn50Mto (Gare au gorilla) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Dn6vWv7zw (auprès de mon arbre) * OLO instructed me to remove the profanity (in English)... so please translate ! . Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 12 October 2013 1:08:12 AM
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< In 1946 he teamed-up with anarchist activists and read Mikhaïl Bakounine, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Pierre Kropotjine.>
Dear Banjo, Those are Gallic spellings of Bakunin and Kropotkin who were Russians. Proudhon was French. I have “God and the State” Bakhunin’s most celebrated pamphlet and Kropotkin’s “Mutual Aid” on my shelves. The First International broke up in 1872 when the followers of Marx and those of Lenin didn’t see eye to eye. Bakunin correctly predicted that a state founded on Marxist principles would be a tyranny, and he wanted none of it. Unfortunately Marx had the more powerful mind and was better able to express himself, but Bakunin was spot on. The Third International took power in Russia in 1917. My Uncle Bill was an old Bolshevik who was arrested by the czarist police. In 1921 he came to the US thoroughly disgusted with Bolshevism after four years of Lenin. He became a loyal American. At the age of 98 he got all dressed up in formal wear to go to a wedding. He fell back on the bed dead and all dressed up to go. Brisbane had a large colony of Russians who had fled czarist oppression. Almost all of them went back to Russia after 1917. In my opinion the Russian revolution was in February 1917. The Leninist takeover in October was a counterrevolution. Those who went back were mostly finished off by the Communists. Kropotkin reacted to the version of Darwin which produced Social Darwinism. He was a scientist and wrote “Mutual Aid” which told of the many species that flourished through cooperation. He came to eschew violence as being against anarchist principles. Anarchists don’t want to be under compulsion, and violence is a form of compulsion. Other anarchists disagreed with that. The first big purge under Lenin was of the anarchists who refused to go along with him. Many Communists see Lenin as a good guy and Stalin as one who perverted the grand revolution. The first free election in Russia was under Lenin, and the Bolsheviks lost. Lenin then turfed out the new Duma (parliament). (continued) Posted by david f, Saturday, 12 October 2013 3:34:13 AM
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I found Whittaker’s voice resonant and pleasant, but his style seems influenced by US country or hill-billy music. I was disappointed to find that type of music in Australia as well as rock & roll. I would like to outlive rock & roll but probably won’t. I wish Bob Dylan would blow his nose.
His song reminded me a bit of:
The Man He Killed by Thomas Hardy
(From "The Dynasts")
"HAD he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have sat us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin!
"But ranged as infantry, 5
And staring face to face,
I shot at him as he at me,
And killed him in his place.
"I shot him dead because—
Because he was my foe, 10
Just so: my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although
"He thought he'd 'list, perhaps,
Off-hand like—just as I—
Was out of work—had sold his traps— 15
No other reason why.
"Yes; quaint and curious war is!
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat, if met where any bar is,
Or help to half-a-crown." 20
I told Melanie you listened to her and posted your comment. This semester she is taking: Conversational Portuguese, Intro to Brazilian Literature, Intro to World Politics, Microbiology of Cancer and Aids, and Afro-Latin American History: 1800- present times, from slavery to invisibility.
I don’t know why she is taking conversational Portuguese unless she wants some easy credits, but I am pleased with the mixture of the humanities and science.