Dear david f,

>>However, I don’t think Christianity or the other monotheistic religions have been misused.<<

I suspect one could similarly find something in Darwinism that could be interpreted as necessarily leading to racism.

With atheism it is not so easy, since there is no “sacred book” of atheism, but heaps of arguments have been written claiming that the Communist (and to a lesser extent also Nazi) atrocities are due to the absence of the idea of a “loving God watching over you”. This in spite of the fact, that for many Christians and Muslim this idea was (and unfortunately still is) impotent since it was overshadowed by the model of a jealous God, easily succumbing to intolerant models (see my Toynbee quote).

Bad things were done in the name of Christianity by people who claimed to be Christians. Today no Christian will deny that. However, when some time ago I wrote here (from my own experience) about the bad things done in the name of atheism by people who claimed to be atheists I received a number of outraged replies in the sense that the Communists did not have the right to call themselves atheist because the good atheists disagreed with what the bad people calling themselves atheists did in the name of atheism.

So much for the imbalance in accepting honestly that bad things were committed by SOME believers in (the Abrahamic model of) God as well as by SOME of those who had no God to believe in.

Another thing is “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.” This is just what is referred to as the jealous God (or model of God). The quote from EB does not compare it with having many gods, but with quoting Krishna as saying he will not punish you for praying to the false god (or false model of God) but will simply overlook your mistake, and answer your prayers himself.

(ctd)

(ctd)

That is a “bird’s eye view” at the difference, and you rightfully pointed out, that conflicts between religions exist also in the East.

An Australian citizen could also be told (archaically) “Though shall not pay income tax to any other authority before ATO”. Or a parent telling his/her child not to trust strangers. There are many situations where “de gustibus non est disputandum” does not hold.

I agree with the Jefferson quote since he does not claim to be God or have any direct responsibility for his neighbour.

>>Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations <<

Well, I was sort of proud that I was “teaching all (engineering students coming from East Asian) nations” mathematics and thus indirectly “baptizing” them into our Western culture, since I shared the conviction that it was good for them. Perhaps this is what Jesus and his followers thought.

You don’t seem to challenge my agreement with the Keane quote. I agree that “marketing” was not the right word to express the entry of the idea of democracy into what became Western culture. Also I do not think Gutenberg copied the idea of printing with movable type from the Koreans (unless you can prove me wrong). The same about blast furnaces in China. And algorithm, algebra etc that we inherited from Arabs was developed into heights of sophistication and usefulness, whereas they remained stale in their culture of origin.

For Christendom, Judaism was an essential part of its roots as well as its development into what it is now, whereas Islamic influence was, as I put it, just an injection from the outside. I suppose one could trace Christian (and Judaic) influence also in the Islamic world, but it was not so essential for their development into what that world is now, “five minutes” before a total globalization of our planet.

dear banjo..thank you..for your kind/words
i also..need thank olo/grayham..for the..only friends..i could claim to have regular contact with

i..have always been..the outsider..
[you know..that kid..that was at school.one day
gone the next..[i often see..these school reunions..thinking..i could..easily go to one every 4 weeks

but even..that would involve..too much travel-time..as after beginning school in oz..4 schools in 3 years..my parents then returned home[to netherlands..where i did 3 years of education..in 4 more schools[in dutch]

we came back,,i commenced high school.[in english]...but having
missed..the important..informative..early years..[where my peers learned the vowels..etc]..only completed 4 years...in five schools..before..giving formal education a miss

anyhow..in time..i found books..a comfort..reading them..
till i found a word..i didnt grasp..then looking it up..in a dictionary..reading re;reading it again/again..till i could..SEE..what the words union..was saying..in toto

i couldnt care less..about the spelling..
as long as i had..the right meaning

in time i discovered..thesaurus..and most recently..spell check function..my seeing has...grown.....yet man is no island..*knowing obli-gates us...[ob-lie-gees?..us]..

groan..
anyhow..where some..see the words spelling..i prefer to know why
that word..was used..not the other one..[take for eg-sample..your vidio's words

<<Off comes,the make up>>
where..did the auther..get..that line from
did it inspirer the clown..or some clown..inspire..the first

<<Off comes..the clown's disguise>>
and we see the real adjenda
<<The curtain's fallin'
The music softly dies.>>

some thing has ended
without really knowing why
yet without bitterness

<<But I hope your smilin'>>

so..it was the clown..or dropping some pre-tense
that shut things down..chased this other away
[i dun it many times]

<<As you're filin' out the door
As they say in this biz
That's all there is... there isn't anymore.

We've shared a moment
And as the moment ends
I got a funny feelin'
We're parting now as friends.>>

i hate endings..
especially..when good threads die

im missing

<<Your cheers and laughter will linger after
They've torn down these dusty walls

If I had this to do again
And the evening were new again
I would spend it with you again>>

But now the curtain falls.

Your cheers..and laughter..
will linger on ever after

[linger on for so long..
as a joy..in my mind..as if made into..song]

They've torn down these dusty walls
People say I was made for this

Nothin' else would I trade..for this
And just think..we DONT..get paid for this.

[thankgod..the versing is over]

here is more..i soon post at the veto thread
cause..im driven..to finish something

ps..we only see..our own greatness
once we see greatness,in other.,.

true/greatness..is what we chose todo..,or not do
with the gifts..we already got*..others words are real for me
for me..life is a constant barter of powers..here expressed in-words

[my only value system..is words]
s/words wounded me..so i examined..what the words really meant
rather than assuming..they knew their meanings too[path of least pain]

but here i am..talking of me again
this is my task..i gave myself today

inspired..by this line
.This idea is worth applying ..to our
understanding..of the baptismal formula.

the short reply?

<<Requiring anything..in addition to..faith i
n Jesus Christ..for salvation is a works-based..or authoritarian dependency../paternalistic form of salvation.

To add anything to the gospel
is to say that Jesus' death on the cross
was not sufficient..to purchase our salvation...>>

YET

as if scape goating..hasnt been refuted..
by christs return..[proving no judgment day..[nor resection day..]

just the eternal promise..[more shall be a given]

jesus said..that ye see me do..
you will do greater*..

WITNESS the proof....resections*

http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Life_in_the_World_Unseen.pdf

ps..jesus did write stuff too..[a course in miracles]
which i..occasionally..make comment upon
http://www.celestinevision.com/celestine/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3337&sid=7d03b0b5151b51611b684494ce008f9c
my latest..point..[re acim]..was the course..says revise..then dont talk..of the whole lessons revision
http://www.celestinevision.com/celestine/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3711&sid=7d03b0b5151b51611b684494ce008f9c
anyhow..my life has been in..trying to figure out..
what the heck..is being said..in what context

i see myself as the joke../others as the joker
thing is who..who knows..who cares..there are things that need explaining

here is that next step?

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15467&page=0

George wrote: With atheism it is not so easy, since there is no “sacred book” of atheism, but heaps of arguments have been written claiming that the Communist (and to a lesser extent also Nazi) atrocities are due to the absence of the idea of a “loving God watching over you”. This in spite of the fact, that for many Christians and Muslim this idea was (and unfortunately still is) impotent since it was overshadowed by the model of a jealous God, easily succumbing to intolerant models (see my Toynbee quote).

Dear George,

I see both Communism and Nazism as coming from Christianity. Both are essentially millenarian philosophies. Of course millenarianism is found in other places besides Christianity, but the particular variety of it in both Communism and Nazism proceeds from Joachim of Fiore by way of Hegel. I think I’ve gone into detail on this matter before.

To me a much more important difference than that between monotheistic belief and atheism is that between faith and doubt or between skepticism and faith. A Communist or Nazi may have as much faith and devotion to their ideology as does a religious monotheist. A much more important difference is also whether one’s religion or ideology can override common decency or humanity.

I used to belong to the Humanist Society of Queensland. I left it because one of the member approved of the Chinese persecution of Christians, and most of the other members agreed with him. I rejoined the society some years later when that element had left. The Chinese persecution of Christians did not seem too different to me from the Inquisition’s persecution of heretics or the Nazi persecution of Jews. All three persecutions had the common element of disregarding the humanity of the persecuted.

To me an enemy of humanity is faith in one’s rightness or possibly even faith in general. A sincere faith in atheism and a sincere will to put it on other people is to me as noxious as a sincere faith in Christianity and a sincere will to put it on other people.

Missionaries. Ugh!

Angels..are..gods/presence...
his..servants..of service..to..life.

They..are often..assigned/earthly..life-long missions.
[but usually..only..on call/or..by sign..or design]

At..all times..they bring
a..messages..seeking..to awake..humanity...

Seldom..does the..*presence..of an..inactive/bored/rejected angel..stay..on the material/plane..[in Earthly..entangled-energy fields]..for very long.

our evil/thoughts..alone..drain..their energetic/being
with good thoughts..chasing bad/angels away..
as much as bad..drives the good away

What..you may think..of as..a guardian/angel
is not..truly..likely to/be..the only one angelic form...
often they play..tag..as..our emitting..of..*mixed emotions drives..away..one[or the other]

There are..many such..beautiful..beings..that
come and go..through..*your lifetime...all equally as..unseen..as the demons..and angels..we often..do..entertain..unawares

You will..always/have access,..to the presence..
of the Angelic Kingdom...A thought..sent out..will always*..bring the immediate presence....of an angelic/being...

according as..what
its believing..your really needing

This..is why..so often..Archangel-Michael..has
said..‘we send the angels out..and the.. come back to us..and they say..what are we to do?..Humanity..doesn’t ask..specifically..for our help.’

Angels..are always here
the moment..you ask..for help...
but/not for..utter selfish..material/reason

They..can clear..obstacles..for you...in the moment
but cant..over-rule..ignorance/stupidity

Know..that their purpose..to do so
is..limited..to that..they can do..

[think who is..to loose
their/cash..so you can get..*cash..]

they CANT..defy..the law..of reason/logic..nor karma

and..that it is..your divine/right
to ask*..for that help...but have you even tried..to?

Angels..also often/times..can change..the vibrational/energy field..that is..around you.[not..he one..you created]

The..vibrational/field..that surrounds you
is..created mainly..by your physical..emotions..attracting..like thinking..[only you..can will 2change..your own thinking].

Your emotions..are the greatest..and first line of offence as much as defense[of your ego system... Emotions are germane..to your perceptions of gods universe..and to humanity.

You..created them*..to determine..your present reality

if/you are safe..Other vibrational/form..find your emotive/emmisions to be..fascinating[energizing]..even though..they.[or rather..their karmic-balance]..often seek..to control..and limit

your true-power...
free-choice..for good..
[or..to be..fair..or foul]

Angels..do not have..obvious/emotions..
they=..have learned..not to judge[anyone]

trusting..that gods..inherent good..in time
will..develop..its intended-fruit..even in..the most revile-able

They..are not..subject..to that vibration.
but..innately affected..by it.
http://new-birth.net/booklet/30_years_among_the_dead.PDF

.many..love song..that..isnt discordant..
yet..others rejoice in it..for angels come..of many/form..and function..serving according as/to..their want/need..even creed..in deed

"He,..of the/Spirit..of love/grace/mercy
(Angel)..of truth...will..guide you..into all truth;..for He shall not speak of Himself;..

but..[speak]..
whatsoever..He shall..hear,..
that shall/He speak:..(John 16:13).

The Angels..being..closely associated..with/inspiration..
the Comforter-Angel..now largely achieves..His aims through..the written word..He has inspired...

"Things to come"
were shown us..by..the Comforter

The Comforter..was to make known
everything..that was made knowable..to Him

my comforters..revealed/unveiled..much

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15257&page=0
you all..thank/you