i have been delving*..into..the secret/sacred/texts
but note mess-age..is addressed..to you all*..[us all/et'al]

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/

specifically..

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/lbob17.htm

<<.. I am full of joy,..
hoping that..the..rather to he saved;[you find truth]
in as/much as..I truly see*..a[the]..spirit infused..*into you*.. from the pure fountain..[of/life spirit..emanating..]..of God:

4.Having this persuasion,..
and..by being fully convinced..thereof,
because..that since I have begun to speak..unto you,..
I have had a more than ordinary..good success....*in the way of..the law..of the/Lord..which is..*in..>>

<<..in...>>-[fused also..with/in..
our beloved/brother]..<<Christ.>>

5..For which cause/brethren,
I also think..verily..that..I love you..above my own soul:

.because..&that [within thee*..as well*]
there-in*..dweleth*...the greatness..of faith and charity,..
as also the hope..of that life..*which is to come>>.
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Life_in_the_World_Unseen.pdf
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Wanderer_a4.pdf

6...Wherefore
considering/this,
that..if I shall take care*..to communicate to you
a part of..what I have received,..it shall turn..to my reward,>>

karma?

<<..that..I have served..such good/souls;
..I gave diligence..to write..in a few words..unto you;..
*that..<<WE*>>..together*..with your faith/knowledge..also that we may be perfect...TOGETHER*

7..There are therefore..three..[11]..things..ordained..by the Lord;..

the hope..of life;..
the beginning..and the completion..of it...>>

into..eternity

<<8..For the Lord..hath both declared unto us,
by the prophets..those things that..are past;
and opened to us..*the beginnings of those..that are to come.

9..Wherefore.. it will behoove us,
1 as he has spoken,..to come 2 more holily, and nearer to his altar.

10..I therefore,..not as a teacher, but as one 3 of you,
will endeavor to lay before..you a few things by which you may, on 4 many accounts,..become the more joyful.

That God has..abolished the legal sacrifices
to introduce..the spiritual righteousness..of the Gospel.

SEEING then
the days are exceeding evil,
and the adversary has got the power of this present..world we ought to give the more diligence..to inquire into the righteous judgments of the Lord.

2..Now the assistants of our faith..are fear and patience;
our fellow-combatants,..long-suffering and continence.

3..Whilst these remain pure..in what relates unto the Lord*,
wisdom,..and understanding,..and science,.and knowledge,

*..rejoice together/with them.

4..For God has manifested..to us
*..by all the prophets,..that he has no occasion for our sacrifices, or burnt-offerings, or oblations:

saying thus;
To what purpose is the multitude..of your sacrifices unto me,..saith the Lord.>>

ahhh men ..eh

from

gone west
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf

<<..All that is put down here is for a reason;
it’s all planned out; and if you don’t at first see the reason, why,

be patient,..
and you will learn. — THE OFFICER.”
__________
The officer then spoke.

He said, “I have been down to the very bottommost depth of Hell, impelled largely by
that intangible thing — a strong personality. Like a burning fire it drives one on the path
one has chosen, and for me there was no hope until that path had been trod.

He said, “I have been down to the very bottommost depth of Hell, impelled largely by
that intangible thing — a strong personality. Like a burning fire it drives one on the path
one has chosen, and for me there was no hope until that path had been trod.

“The personality made evil by an evil life remains evil after death, and the more
probably will it go to the logical conclusion which its evil deeds naturally setup.
“You say, ‘To know all is to forgive all,’ and he who has been to the bottom of Hell
may yet rise to the top, and the knowledge so acquired will be of far more value to
himself and the world in general than the lesser knowledge acquired by a feebler soul who
did no great evil and very little good.”
Being asked whether a soul could ever become annihilated by persistent refusal to
repent, he said, “It is obvious that a man could not be punished indefinitely for what took
place in a finite period. You mean therefore for faults committed after death, which is
infinity? “
Being answered “Yes,” he replied, “What is the soul? “
Mr. K. replied, “A part of God.”
He answered, “Precisely. How, then, can God annihilate even a part of Himself?
Sooner or later a soul will turn to God, but it may be countless ages before that happens.”
He then ceased.

from/davids..spinoza/link
http://www.neh.gov/humanities/2013/septemberoctober/feature/why-spinoza-was-excommunicated

<<..If..we think..that God..is like us,

ie..an agent..[who/acts..for the sake/of ends]..
and who,..by issuing/commands,..makes known..his expectations..and punishes those..who do-not obey,..[only THEN}..we..will be dominated*..by the/passions..of hope..and fear:>>

<<..hope..for eternal/reward...and..fear..of eternal/punishment.>>

for some..the so-called..punishment..
fels more..like a reward..[eventually]
death..where is..thy sting?

<<..This>>..if true..<<will,..in turn,lea/ us.toward submission/to ecclesiastic-authorities...who claim to know..what God/wants...

The resulting/life..is one/of..“bondage”—psychological,..moral,religious,social,and political/enslavement—as opposed to..the liberating/life of reason.>>

true again

<<..What might/have..especially bothered/Spinoza’s/contemporary coreligionists..was his/claim..that there is..*no theological..or metaphysical..or even moral/sense..>>..

wrong

..<<..*in..which/the Jews..are God’s/“chosen people,”..[oh]
in..part/because Spinoza’s..God....does not..(cannot)/choose anything!>>

why?

what..is choosing*..to create?
judge-angels../mate/with loki/..satans trial/..job/adam/eve..etc?

<<..All human/beings..are a part.of Nature..[gods/nurture]
in..exactly the same/way,..and..thus there/is..nothing/special..or distinctive..about the/Jewish people>>

that dont apply..TOALLPEOPLE
ewho..is not..a child..of the fat-her.

no-one/special..<<..other than..the particular/set..of laws they follow.>>..faith//hopes/dreams?

lol..little wonder/

quote..<<..There/is..no evidence..
that Spinoza/sought..any kind-of pardon,>>..lol

<<It/is true..edited..[that]..divin/“favor”;
but..this..just/means_that,..aided/by their..*own efforts,..
Nature..*seemed to bring..good/things their way...However,>>.

<<..Spinoza argues,..with the..Jewish/kingdom..long gone..
and its people scattered..all over the world,..there is no longer anything special..in which..the/Jewish people/..may take special pride..or see..as their divine vocation.>>

position/position/position
re-build it..we willcome

<<..“.he reduces..to a single/moral maxim
:;;Love your fellow human beings..and treat them/with justice..and charity.

This is all..that/is essential..to the.“true religion.”
Everything else..is just superstition./GREED?CREED?RITE?ritual

<<>.Perhaps the most..*deleterious>>
but not wrong..<<superstition of all..is the belief in the immortality..of the soul...Like the notion..of a providential God,..the idea that/a person..will experience a postmortem/existence in some..world-to-come..is a part of..all three Abrahamic religions.>>

yes absolutely
i see no proof refuting anything?

<<..While there is,..of course,
much diversity..among the major faiths..about what exactly happens..to a person when he dies,>>

correct

<</and while Judaism,..at least,
generally..does not make/the belief in immortality..*a necessary tenet..of the faith,..*the eternal fate of the soul..was of the utmost importance..to the great majority..of Spinoza’s contemporaries,>>

<<..and this..is what he found..so troubling.>>

big/clue right..there

<<..In his view,>>.
ie his opinion/not proof

<<..a robust/doctrine..of personal/immortality,
like..the eschatology..that accompanies it,..only strengthens/those harmful_passions..that undermine..the life of reason.>>

yes...THE CHURCH FATHERS..THOUGHT SO..TOO
dont mean..either..*was right/or wrong..its opinion

,*<He is..showing that..while there is,*
in..*a sense,..an eternal*..part/of..the human-mind..[lol]..!

*<<..that..remains/after..a person’s..death—
namely,the knowledge..and ideas..that..she/has acquired..in/this lifetime>>

agreed

<<—there is nothing..personal..about it>>..

rubbish..IT HAPPEND..to you!

<<..When you are dead,..Spinoza is saying,..you are dead.>>

and im saying..we cant..prove it
evidence/..proofs..the opposite..posit

.

Dear George,

.

You wrote:

[ “But, as George’s father seems to have taught him when he was a little boy: legality is one thing and morality is another.”

I don’t know were my father comes into it, ... ]

.

I was referring to the following passage you wrote to David where you explain your father’s teachings in relation to legality and morality:

“ When I was a child my father explained the difference to me thus: ... you are not guilty before any worldly court ... But you are guilty before God ... ”

.

Dear David,

.

“The term, Judeo-Christian, is questionable ... ”.
.

All amalgamations and short-cuts are questionable. In my opinion, all three Abrahamic religions have much in common, as they do with many other religions.

But my comments were made in the specific context of the so-called “holy scriptures”, wherein the Christian bible distinguishes itself from the scriptures of the other two religions by being the only one to incorporate some of the scriptures of one of the other two, the Jewish (Hebrew) bible, in what is known as the old testament.

It was in this specific context that I employed the term Judeo-Christian.

.

Dear David, George and One Under God,

.

Re: incitement to murder, torture or hatred etc. in the bible and the quran :
.

The fact that it has been going on for nearly two thousand years is no excuse, in my opinion. It is about time it ceased. Better late than never. Malicious incitement has no place in religion. It nurtures fanaticism, cruelty and destruction and gangrenes society.

The problem is it is so deep-rooted in the very heart of the “holy scriptures” that there is a maximum risk of death in any surgical operation undertaken to eliminate it.

My guess is that you and I would be prepared to take that risk, David, but I doubt that George would, even though it may be in his and all our best interests.

I don’t know what One Under God’s position would be. I’ll ask him.

.

Dear Banjo,

Malicious incitement has every place in religion. Nothing unites believers as well as hatred of the unbeliever. This is often done while proclaiming love of the unbeliever in seeking to correct the unbeliever of error. It is at the heart of the missionary religions and present in the non-missionary religions.

The New Testament condemns non-Christians

Corinthians 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

No tolerance allowed. It doesn’t seem fair to proclaim people accursed who follow the religion or lack of religion of their parents as most non-Christians do.

The Book of Joshua in the Jewish Bible recounts a tale of divinely ordered genocide.

Joshua 6:2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.

Divine genocide includes not only humans but also livestock.

Joshua 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

The Bible is a book which advocates intolerance and genocide.

I was in Morocco and was informed by a blond, blue-eyed Moroccan that Christians and Jews were going to hell. What is now Morocco was once occupied by the Vandals, a Germanic tribe. Possibly my informant was a descendent.

Islam has been described as a ‘religion of the sword’, but it seems that all Abrahamic religions deserve that sobriquet.

Dear david f,

>> I have heard that the priest describes a penance and may offer some words of advice. He may even be a more sympathetic listener than the analyst I visited.<<

This is what a classical “father confessor” was supposed to be, although I suppose it assumes he was psychologically skilled (most were not) and intellectually above the “poor soul” seeking consolation. My grandmother had to bring up four children during WW I while her husband was on the front in Galicia. She said the only consolation and support she could get was from her confessor, a Jesuit priest.

>>If one is expected to take those books seriously than it is appropriate to apply current standards.<<

I think you can take a text seriously while still respecting the historical/cultural context in which it was written. As for applying “current standards” we used to joke that Newton would not pass our first year course on calculus (he would know nothing about the epsilon-delta approach), nevertheless we “took seriously” his contribution to mathematics and physics.

You may be right, I should not have used the word “guilty” for bad intentions when there is no God to judge. “Having intense feelings” about something you should not do, nevertheless acting contrary to those feelings is classically called resisting temptation. Like a pedophile who has “intense feelings” for certian wrongdoings nevertheless resists them.

However, my example with the intended murderer who stumbled was not about “feelings of doing evil”, but an actual decision, an intent, which failed for reasons outside his control.

As I said, ethics, psychology or moral philosophy are indeed not my territory, but thanks again for making me try to find my way in it.