3. "The military expeditions (raids) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven." Tabari IX:118 "The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death was forty-eight." Tabari IX:115 (Mo, the plunderer)

4. Mohammed says... "Why is it, O 'A'isha (his 9 year old wife!) that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me... He said: Was it the darkness that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain....... ," Muslim 4:2127. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127 (Mo the wife beater)

5. "All married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess (your slaves). It is a decree of Allah for you. Muslim 4:24. (Mo the rapist/slaver/adulterer)

6. Pagans indeed are those who say that God is a third of a trinity (ie, Christians) except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution. The Koran, Sura al-Ma'ida 5:73 (Mo, on Interfaith relations)

and so on, I think you get the idea. I could write about the pregnant woman sliced open, or the Old Man Mo killed for critizing him, or Asma Marwan, the old lady he had killed for criticing the murder of that same old man, and so on for about 10 pages...

Out of space. Tomorrow I will write why these things are important, and how they relate to modern Islam, the s-called 'moderate' Muslims (like FH and Irfan) and even the Bali bombings...

Kactuz

Philio:

Just wanted to write a response to your last post. I agree that in a democracy we must 'agree to disagree' on many issues, but when we are all under threat we have a duty to stick together and defeat that threat.
However, I do not think this obliges me to support the war in Iraq. Why?
1) I do not think that the fight there is related to threats to our own country, and if so, then it is likely increasing the threat to Australia rather than eliminatng it.
2) Even if Iraq is related to our own security, I do not think we are going about it the right way. The only way we can truly elimintate terrorism is to eliminate the root cause - hatred. Thus, the way to garuntee our own security is to ensure the well being of those societies that breed terrorism - really 'win the hearts and minds'.

kaktuz:

I dont know if what you say is true, probably it is.
But what is the point in creating more negaitivity towards Islam? How many Muslims are there in the world 1, 2 billion?
Regardless what you think of them they are going to always be there, we have to live with them, so we might as well try and accept them and promote as freindly relations as possible. Unless of course you want to kill all the Muslims in the world, which would no doubt end up in the death of every human and animal on the planet.
Much more benificial to try and promote harmony.

Kaktuz,

All your 46 postings are about Islam, I noticed someone’ response to you:
“Kaktuz, All I have ever noticed is your incessant vilification of Islam on this forum. I doubt you would be able to hear an honest opinion in the storm of your hatred for Islam” posted by Trinity (Atheist).

Let me help you understand how we view our faith:

- Interfaith: Quoran separates theology from human interaction. How Muslims treat and should treat people of the book (Christians, Jews) is clear in different parts of the Quoran. Verse 2: 60-62 stipulates that good believers will go to heaven whether they are Christians, Jews or Sabeans (a form of worship by Noah). 3:84 tells muslims not to differentiate between prophets of God or their followers. Treating Christians and Jews have always been best by Muslims and hence they lived and prospered in Muslims countries. Salahudin, when attacked by the crusades assigned a garrison to protect Arab Christians and risked his own life to rescue his friend and later prime minister who was an Arab Christian. When it comes to faith however, God is One in the Quoran, pure and simple. Neither polytheism nor idolatry allowed and no buts no ifs. When I visit my Jewish friend in Randwick, he shows me the direction to Mecca when it is prayer time. He is not expected to believe in my religion. Do you understand the difference?

- Your references: the copts site you refer to have very little truth in it. The fanaticism and discrimination in Egypt however is based on “Theo-Nepotism” of some sort (ie some companies prefer to hire Muslims only while some Christians prefer to hire and interact with Christians only).

- As mentioned in my previous posting, we believe in the Quoran as the final word of God, Hadith was written few hundred years later on ‘hear say’ sources so how we view it simply like this: what follows the spiritual teachings of the Quoran are credible.

As for debates, visit www.themodernreligion.com
I hope you know now whether it is fear or hate you feel,

Peace,

Fellow Human,
All these things are good and true. Most Muslims are good people and much of what is written in the al-Qu'ran is good. But we are facing something really nasty now. All around the world Muslims are being taught black propaganda and much of it is lies. They are being taught that the US and the West are oppressing Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya etc. If educated Muslims in countries like Britain believe this, imagine how it must be for otherwise good Muslims in places like Saudi Arabia where there is no access to free media and no freedom of religion. It is not their fault if they believe this propaganda that the US is out to get Muslims. They almost all believe it. What do they know about the complexity of the conflicts in places like Chechnya and Kashmir? How do they allege the US is responsible in places like that? Do they really think most Iraqis Muslims are well-served by the insurrection there? Do they know that the US is also pushing for a Palestinian state or that the US and NATO bombed the Serbs to help Muslim Kosovars and Bosnians? Or indeed that not all oppressed peoples are Muslim and not all oppressors are non-Muslim? This is the challenge - seemingly unwinnable - to convince the Muslim masses that jihad is not the way. The insurgents in Iraq will win simply because there is an unstoppable supply of suicide bomber terrorists willing to blow their brains out based on the lie that in killing so many Iraqis along the way, they are doing something religiously righteous. Who, among the Muslims, will let them know it is wrong?

The Q'ran, Bible, Torah , books written in another time, another place with no relevance today yet still used as an excuse to commit war on others.
When will we ever learn?

MIckjo

could you please have a read of the New Testament, and the teaching of Christ, and then show me how it can legitimately be used as justification for war ?

Then, when you find you cannot do that, please feel free to state that it is 'PEOPLE' who for their own dark reasons, will seek any pretext in order to carry out their own dark purposes.

The difference though, between Fellow Humans 'friendly' Islam and the real version :) is found in such verses as Quran 33

<<25 And Allah turned back the disbelievers [meccans] in their rage—they gained no advantage. And Allah sufficed the believers in fighting. And Allah is ever Strong, Mighty. 26 And He drove down those of the People of the Book [Qurayzah] who backed them from their fortresses, and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive some. 25 And He made you heirs to their land and their dwelling and their properties . . . . Allah is ever Possessor of power over all things.>>

This example (straight from the Quran by the way) is fleshed out in a number of other traditions, including the hadith and histories.
The actual numbers involved '600-900 men' constitutes pure culpable genocide.
That day, would make the sum total of all the 'beheading video's' on Ogrish.com look like chicken feed.

for further reading, I suggest you do a search on "Banu Qurayza". You will find a number of results, ranging from Muslim apologetics to simple hate/propoganda anti Islamic sites. You will need to weigh up the information yourself.

But the most OBVIOUS problem Fellow Human has, is that he continually refers to 'non aggressive' war, yet Mohamed surrounded and beseiged the Qurayza for 25 nights. Defence?

The Islamic Council of Vic's goal:

To promote Islam AS PRACTICED BY MOHAMED....

woops.. hang on.. it DID say that until about a month ago... now I see its all changed.. wonder why ? Clearly, they are embarassed about how Mohamed practiced Islam.