Kaktuz,

Last week Egypt celebrated its 4th Nobel Prize and the Muslim world celebrates its 3rd Nobel peace prize.

You are brainwashing yourself with hate.

President Sadat, Egypt. 1978 Nobel Peace Prize Winner:

“Peace be upon you. This is the traditional way in which, everyday, we greet one another. It reflects our deepest feelings and hopes. We always say it and we mean it”.
“On this most solemn and moving occasion, I would like to pledge that we in Egypt - with the future rather than the past in mind - are determined to pursue in good faith, as we have always done, the road to peace, and to leave no avenue unexplored to reach this cherished goal, and to reconcile the sons of Ismail and the sons of Isaac.
"Any life lost in war is the life of a human being, irrespective of whether it is an Arab or an Israeli.”

Maguib Mahfouz, Egypt. 1988 Nobel Literature Prize Winner:

“I will introduce Islamic civilization in a situation summarizing one of its most conspicuous traits: In one victorious battle against Byzantium it has given back its prisoners of war in return for books of the ancient Greek heritage in philosophy, medicine and mathematics. This is a testimony of value for the human spirit in its demand for knowledge, even though the demander was a believer in God and the demanded a fruit of a pagan civilization”.

Mrs. Shirin Elbadi, Iran. 2003 Nobel Peace Prize winner:

“I am a Muslim. In the Koran the Prophet of Islam has been cited as saying: "Thou shalt believe in thine faith and I in my religion". That same divine book sees the mission of all prophets as that of inviting all human beings to uphold justice. Since the advent of Islam, too, Iran's civilization and culture has become imbued and infused with humanitarianism, respect for the life, belief and faith of others, propagation of tolerance and compromise and avoidance of violence, bloodshed and war."The sons of Adam are limbs of one another Having been created of one essence".

Peace,

I did set out to read the Bible once but never got past all the begetting, got bored and never tried again.
Maybe that will make me sound superficial , that's Ok . But I still can see no relevance in old books written by the long dead of an age long gone.
The Ten commandments are not a bad hook to hang a modern hat on, they are a good system of how to treat others.
Undoubtably someone could find some interpretation on 'how to commit war in ten easy lessons' in the bible, would't know, never looked.
Maybe it is time a new book was written that would apply to ALL cultures, ALL races demanding that we behave politely and civilly towards each other and live in peace.
Trouble is there is no profit in peace.

Thanks Fellow,

That is interesting indeed, and heartening to see.

However, I do have one question regarding Iran.

I was under the impression that Islam in Iran is intolerant and extreme. I have heard stories of rapings as punishment for adultery being condoned by family, and women being extremely repressed.

As you hopefully know, I have been one of the ones trying to stop people blaming Islam, but I just had to bring that up. I really thought Iran was one country that cannot be held up as an example of model Islamic society.

Perhaps I am just revealing my ignorance? I would be glad to be corrected on this one...

Rogindon,

Sorry for responding late, as mentioned in earlier posting Muslims are doing lots of activities in fighting fanaticism. Few things worth mentioning:

- The misuse of the term Jihad is maybe affecting 100-200K people (that is my personal view). Most main stream Muslim education (even the Orthodox one) explains it within its proper context: struggle for better self, charity, sponsoring the orphan and the widow. I lived in the Middle East/ Egypt till the age of 29 and the real size of the problem cannot be more than that. Even though a 200,000 in 1.4 Billion is less than 0.01%, they can do a lot of damage with the ‘1 way trip’ ideology if not corrected and dealt with quickly.

- The Propaganda machine is as bad in the East or west, bad news sells: “The other hates you and is coming to kill you”. Although the media in the Middle East improved over the last couple of years, media on both sides need to be more socially responsible and collaborate.

- There is also a cumulative lack of trust especially on the issue of Palestine that you mentioned. Middle Eastern usually has long memories and they only believe actions. The Gaza pullout for instance was received very well on the street level when I was travelling through Egypt and Emirates. Action wins a lot of hearts easily in this part of the world.

- Even though most community based efforts are small’ish’ and fragmented, each is doing a bit. Even you can actually help by pointing any Muslim you know or bump into to these sites and forums.

Kactuz,

We are not in denial we do criticize what we do wrong. Let me point you to few articles written by an Orthodox Muslim (what you and I may call extreme):

http://www.themodernreligion.com/ugly.html
read “obligation of a Muslim towards a disbeliever”
http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/arrogance-mistreat.html
http://www.themodernreligion.com/ugly/muslim-racist.html

Funkster,

Thanks for your posting, when you read the full article By Mrs ElBadi on Nobel.org it will give you an understanding on traditional tribal habits that is hiding under Islam as perceived by Iranians

F.H.
me.. taliban ? :) I must be scoring a few truth points, you are resorting to character assasination. Never mind, we can discuss our differences no matter what.

Now.. an important point here.

I made reference to the mass execution of the Banu Qurayza by Mohammed.
You then made some statements as follows:

1/ It was treachery during a time of war.

You also qualified the background from other sources... may I know which 'sources' these are ? I can only presume they are the same sources I am using to flesh out and give background to the same events. After all, I'm using the recognized Hadith, which as you know is 2nd only to the Quran in Islamic thinking. I can think of no better source.
Then, I'm using others, including Sirat Rasul by Ibn Ishaq, but I know the credibility of his work is questioned by some, though I have my own reservations on the credibility of the criticism.

Given your point about Treachery, let's scrutinize that more closely.
In fact, it was a 'treaty relationship' mainly being a 'peace treaty' for the protection of the signatories (if they did sign anything)...
So, alliances change, this is not wrong, it is convenient, alliances changed all the time in European history, and for good reason. SURVIVAL.

So, it seems you are saying that if anyone changes their alliances in their own survival interests, those they were formerly in treaty with, can now liquidate all the men (genocide) and enslave all the women and children ! ....er in that case, you have just 'justified' the massacre of muslims at Srebrenica which was the same thing. Muslims declared independance from Yugoslavia, i.e. broke a treaty.
And.. surprise surprise..it was a "time of war"...

As for "Sa'd" He was a cruel bloodthirsty monster of a man, read up on him. Jew ? He was chief of the Arab Aws tribe, former allies of the Qurayza.

MICKIJO

I can identify with your struggle with the 'begats'... At first I had a similar struggle, and found them cumbersome and apparently of no value.

Then, I came to understand how important they were. There are many little pearls among them. An anthropologist would be absolutely revelling in them for the information they provide about tribes, kinship and gender roles.

But the most important place to begin, for the 'genealogy challenged' like myself and you, would be one of the Gospels. Mark is the shortest, and if you see this link, it will take you straight to a contemporary english version.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=1&version=31

Mark does not have very much on the ethical teaching of Jesus, its more about Kingdom of God parables etc. Matthew and Luke contain much more of Jesus 'public teaching'. Sermon on the mount etc.

When one has an understanding of Christ, the Old testament can become more meaningful.

Jesus said in Luke 24:44 "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

So, Micki, it is through an encounter with the living Christ which will open our minds to the Old Testament.

I urge you to read Mark, and consider your position before God, and take that step of putting your faith in Christ, and enter in to the 'presense of the future' experiencing the Kingship of God in your own daily life.