'could you please have a read of the New Testament, and the teaching of Christ, and then show me how it can legitimately be used as justification for war ?'

Some people find a way, Davey boy, they find a way. Of course they can't do it *legitimately*, same as those who follow Islam can not *legitimately* justify. But they do it just the same. Some people kill in the name of rock bands. My point: killers are killers, regardless of religion.

God does his fare share of smoting and smiting in the bible. Actually, he smotes and smites all over the place - it's a pretty violent read.

There's plenty of people throughout history who have used the bible as an excuse to smote thy enemies. Come to think of it, there's people doing that right now. Look for an article tipped to come out towards the end of the month, where Bush in a private conversation apparently said that God told him to invade Iraq.

Ok, so no ones surprised, fair enough.

..oh by the way, this will be my last post for a while as I'll be away from a computer for a bit - so I'll end with a quote from my old fav, Bill Hicks (this was said just after Bush No. 1 left power):

"I'm very relieved, because let me tell you, we have had fundamentalist christians in the White House, fundamentalist christians who believe that the Bible is the EXACT word of God, INCLUDING that whole wacky fire and brimstone revelations ending...who have had their finger on the f-n button for the past eight years. 'Tell me when Lord...tell me when....let me be your servant lord...'"

Peace everyone, see you all in a few weeks...

BD,

What should I call you, the Aussie Taliban! (Won’t call you a Christian so not to hurt my Christian friends…see la difference?)

I am now sure there are many little missionaries using this account because you keep referring to the same story.

First, you can’t compare the bible to the Quran, the earlier has been edited and censored by the church to shape Jesus character and the Christian faith as it is today. Banned from the bible is everything related to Jesus from the age of 12 till 29 (a mystery that no one dares to pose the question though).

Enjoy this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russel
http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

Second, the incident you keep referring to is treason during the time of war and the judgement was passed by Saad, one of their own tribes. You won’t find any kinder than this!

Imagine if in WWII the UK would have turned against the US and massacred US soldiers and their families. Then Roosevelt will ask the UK government to sentence their own traitors, we will be saying: ‘he was fair and kind’. Right?

Its Ramadan BD, haven’t received the ‘happy Ramadan’ card you sent yet! :-)

Au revoir et paix (peace).

Fellow Posters,
You will recognise the well know saying, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

We might all like a society that believes and behaves exactly as we do. However when one ideology holds power then dissidents are oppressed or made outcast. We have the examples of this well written into human history.

Roman Christianity was oppressive to unbelievers, Socialist atheism was oppressive to theistic believers, Where Islam is in power they are oppressive to other ideologies / religions. The only nations that allow personal democratic freedom are those nations that have secular Governments. If moderate Islam had control for example in Australia the power brokers of Islam would soon subjugate others to their oppressive laws. As in all ideologies the Radical Power brokers of that ideology rise to the top to influence the society to adopt the strict and pure understanding of the ideology.

The only acceptable society is one in which each person respects the different personal convictions of others. This does not mean we do not attempt to propagate of defend our position. As on this Forum communicative defence allows us learn how others think

Continuing my thoughts from the post above. We all must understand that there are no Moderate Muslims, there are those that will kill you and those that will make excuses for those that kill you.

There is no way else to judge the actions and explanations of people who deny the most obvious facts - even from their own writings, no less. As you know I have been on a quest to find Muslims that can read simple statements that tell of despicable acts by their great prophet and then tell me those actions were wrong, and then say the man that did them was evil. No luck.

Reason tells us that a man that sees evil and then says it is not bad at all, or simply says he saw nothing, is morally corrupt and cannot be trusted. Those are hard words, but true and logical.

So we come to the issue of modernday terror. Islamic terrorists are simply following the precepts of their prophet. They are practicing their understanding of Islam. The fact that the Koran gives ample support to this interpretation is yet another case of denial. Words like "So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam" (Koran8:39) and "Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers" (Koran 48:29) leave little room for doubt

This pattern of violence, inconsistency and denial is a bloody river that runs through the life of Mohammed, across the pages of the Koran and into the lives of Muslims.

The bombings in Bali are an attack on Non-Muslims, not on “moderate” Muslims as Irf would like you to believe. A majority of the Balis are Hindu, another group that Muslims dislike (pagans). This is just another phase of the world-wide Jihad against the infidel. It is Muslims doing what Muslims are told to do by their dear prophet. May I quote: "Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (a meeting with) Allah" (al-Ahzaab33:21)

There are two ways to stop terror:
1. Kill them, jail them, exile them, send all Muslims back to Dar al_Islam. I will not be a part of this.
2. Stop pretending that Islam deserves respect. Denounce Islam for what it is and says. Ridicule it. Tell Muslims the truth. Be honest with them – including the seemingly mild Irf and good-natured Fellow Human. They are as much a part of jihad as the bombers and beheaders. This distortion of reality in Islam is known as Al-taquiya (deception). You will notice that they never condemn Mohammed, in spite of my efforts to show them what kind of man it is they consider to be the most noble of men. Mo would be proud of them, as he would be of the September 11, July 7 and Bali-bomber Muslims.

FH, think about what you say. May have noticed that the "vilification" you mention is directly related to my references and quotes from the Quoran and Hadiths. It is not me that is insulting Islam, but rather Islam insulting Islam. Don't blame me, I only point out the obvious (or rather the oblivious in the case of Muslims) as recording in Islamic writings.

Have I misquoted? Are these not 'truths' written by the prophet and his followers? Did I invent the links? Do you think I should be nice to slavers or torturers? Have you ever stopped to consider the moral implications of these shameful events, or better, the moral implications of your refusal to even consider the moral implications of these very ignominious events recorded by Muslims about Muslims? Please answer! Think, FH, Think!

I know you may find this hard to believe but at times I have been threatened by followers of the so-called religion of Peace. They don't answer my questions, but they have no trouble expressing themselves when the issue is promissing extreme pain. I wonder where they learned this?

Funkster. Apologize? Are you depraved or just stupid? It will be a cold day in hell when I am nice to torturers and slavers.

Kactuz

rogindon:

Just wanted to say that that is a very well written and thought provoking peice. I think there is alot of truth in what you say, thats the hard truth that we have to face and think about....