The truth.

Someone said to me once, you are an animal! I said NO! Iam worse! Iam HUMAN.

TTM

Religion and science: respecting the differences. See OUG, There are two differences and paths. Your on one, and the rest are on another. As humans grow out of control, evolution will squeeze out the old thinking and the new will take its place. We now know the mindsets of the past, and it has served us well, and as the transitions of which all living things has to deal with, i see no-one likes truth and or reality. Religion is now deceiving us and all must look with-in our-selves to not only to save our humanity, but all living things that we need to live here. ( you all waste so much time with the 19th century thinking )

This is hard times for all of us, and any higher than seven billion people on this planet, and the run-away human world will not be save-able. ( And you say you understand the word extinction! Bullsh@t you do, you fu@king Hippocrates )

All the clues are here, in what to do. online opinion. Human greed will destroy all. ( You say you love your children! No you don't! you love your money and your selfish selves.)

So stop Bullsh@tting me and yourselves! You know humans are on a high way to hell............... and I put that in for you OUG. smile.

Now the human race is now at the cross-roads.

Only time well tell how the future will be played out.

The earth is now in your hands.

My rant for the week.

Sorry that my lack of education,lol, does not suit your purpose.
smile.

Good luck.

TTM

So tell me' what did either side achieve?

http://www.google.com.au/images?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=Dolphin+killing+in+japan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=SlaFTNagOYygvQOnlJiSBA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=6&ved=0CEQQsAQwBQ&biw=1016&bih=570

Like I said. Humans will eat this planet alive.

And 9.2 billion people by 2050.

The Japanese government is next!

Have a nice day.

Sorry!

Back to your very important discussion.

TTM>

Hello Oliver,
Thanks for the link. I never claimed the way Christianity was spread after Constantine (and later) was something to be approved of or even imitated. It was your comparison of situations over 1600 years apart that I found strange.

I had a direct experience of Stalinism as well as an indirect one of Nazism (by talking to those whose experience was direct), so I do not need historians to tell me why to condemn them. However, I had neither a direct nor an indirect experience of Constantine or Theodosius; I only know that reasons for passing this or that judgment about them have to take into account the time they lived in.

As I keep on saying, history differs from natural science, e.g. chemistry, in that you can answer no “ifs” by experimenting in a laboratory: there is no way of telling which way the “injection” of Judaic religion into Rome would go without Jesus, Paul, Constantine.

“There is a term ‘Whig interpretation of history,’ … ‘The Whig historian seems to believe that there is an unfolding logic in history’ … (a) view of history as a means of passing judgments on the past. … (Lord) Acton wanted history to serve as the ‘arbiter of controversy … (since) it is the office of historical science to maintain morality as the sole impartial criterion of men and things.’ (On the other hand, Herbert) Butterfield went on to say that ‘(i)f history can do anything, it is to remind us of those complications that undermine our certainties, and to show us that all our judgements are merely relative to time and circumstance’” (quoted by Steven Weinberg in The One Culture, ed. Labinger and Collins, UCP 2001, p. 119).

What I have in common with the physicist Weinberg - certainly not a Christian apologist - is that neither of us is a historian, and when he seems to agree with Butterfield, rather than Acton (including where he adds that “this is the point where the historian of science and the historian of politics should part company”), I am on his side.

it's...allways/good..to hear..from you/..think..then move

yes..i/know..thats-not..your handle..
but..never-the-less..im glad/..you spoke-up..

[if nothing-else..it reveals..people[sentient-beings]
still..drop-in..occasionally...
reminding-us/that..people...are watching

because/that..is..the truth

[there/is more/truth..in what..you/say]
but also...some/error...
so lets..diverge..from science/religion..truthing

to spirit/under-pinning..religion/truth
and cash/media-spin..directing research

like the..'watching'..aspect
[i know..that wasnt..you/saying..it]
but it/is good..to remind/people..
there are..gogent-souls..who really/are watching

see..we/have more..who love/us...dead..than alive

when...one/of the deads/loved-ones..meets..anyone..[in/the flesh]
the same..joinder..joins..together..spirits..in the other/realms

as jesus said..where-ever..two/or more are joined..
i will/be there

we will/be totally unaware..of the..joinders..[watchers]..which/that..even casual-meeting creates..

but..enough..of the matters/of..spirit

we/do..got huge/problems..
but importantly...we are/..not alone
fortuinatly..there is..a lot/of fat..built-in..

take..just/a..high-rise..office-complex..standing/empty
acres...of space..with..lighting..allowing hydro-culture

ie..to grow food..off..sew-rage..if/needed

other problems..too are solv-able

take..the other..peer-age..scam..
that needs its bubble-burst[seal/broken]...
jesus attack..of the money-changers..to wit..URSURY

and the,..securities/traiters..
who can/monetise..on-sell....even debt
but the/thing...is...its..all..been built..!

industry could stop/there is plenty..of...green-jobs..maintaining..what..we allready/built
simply..install death-duties..
tax/the dead..not the living

we dont/need yet another tax..
to go direct..to the money-changers
who take our promise/to pay..and on sell/that..
to 'create'..money..from our savings/super
leaving..our compulsory-super..holding their..dead promises/papers

see..money...was issued..by govt..as/it was needed

it pased..a money-bill..via govt..
that went to treasury..that orderd..
the fed reserve..to order the/mint..to print..it

but the money-changers..stole..the fed/got control..of the mint
stole/the gold/silver..gave us cheap..immitatiion..coin-age..paper/plastic..promises..nickle-coin-age

worse..money-changers..made govt/pay ursury..on/its own money
and made/govt..tax its people..[income-tax]...
but wages..ARNT..income..!

its a dirty/demonic plague..on all/our houses
watched..tv..lately...its all..cop-shows..murder..viloence..mahem

the demons[spirits]..are really/taking-over-the media..
dumbing/us down..by deliberated..intent..via our/their..greed..and other depraved..lusts..that..want..it-all

the most..clever/thing about..evolution's/delusions
is it took..knowing.god..out of the picture..
and jesus works..out of our minds..[we forget/forgot..the lessons..of the past]

knowing jesus..budda/maghanoud...personally...
acting morally..because..they-are/watching..[not judging]

know..every..yank[usa]..president..ever murded..
was by the bankers..moneyed/elte/money-changers..[about money]..

treason..gave the/mone-tory-system,...
to the/ursurors/money-changers..
but..ALL..the holy-books..ALL SAY..no ursury..!

anyhow/..one seal..at a time
now im busting..the seal of EVOLVING-delusions

this/is..no time..for panic

[the only/thing..to fear..
is fear..we create..ourselves
by listening..to idiot-peers/media]

its time/we knew.who..what/we..are
all..that really is..is god

we are..the dream
he is..the dreamer
but god being god..the dream..is very/real

[to the/dream..and the/dreamer..]

lets just..trust/hope..the dreamer..dont wake-up..
and banish/dreaming..

[and/..but..that wont happen..
because we/know..how..vivid-dreaming works]

enough/said..back to putting peers/back-in..their box

letting them/know...
[three/..monk-key..visioning]..wise-guys

see/no evil
think/no=evil
hear/no-evil

in..their trinity/do no-evil
love-is all we need

Hi George,

"I had a direct experience of Stalinism as well as an indirect one of Nazism.."

I know that, It's horrible. The twentieth century brought some of the worst leaders in history.

If yu look at an issue like capital punish (which I disagree with), one does need to be careful, for example, for comparing George W. Bush (as the pardon Governor of Texas) and say Pompey (mass crucifixations). There is a common theme, yet much is different too. And the big difference the value of life rather than the scale of the killings.

Aside: I am not a professional historian, though, I do research and lecture on the influence on the effects of culture on knowledge discovery which requires understanding how civilizations tick. The front-end of my PhD was likewise. While I am okay on the underpinnings of cultural antecendents to behaviour, my wife would run rings around me on dynasties and genelogies. I use her copy of Suetonius, for example.(Suetonious also shows, things were different then, with several emperors acting in ways we would consider unbalanced).

Though I do recall at Conference a lone History Prof. standing up and calling "at at last!". :-). The rest of the audience took it as routine :-(.

Alertnative histories are interesting to contemplate: What if the French had sunk the "Rainbow Warrior" docked in New York habour and the operatives were caught?

I will come back to the other matters. No Paul?

Have a good day.