Hello George,

Yes, we are still going strong.

Please read link around 384-389 period. (I just realised from the URL this might be a biased site,yet I have read this history before and posted some on OLO)

http://www.stopthereligiousright.org/theodosius.htm

I was mainly referring to Theodosius, enforcement of Constantine, an era where there were Christian mobs pursecuting the pagans and death camps (Skythopolis).

I agree with you that Stalin an Hilter were worse to the extent that they lived after the Enlighhtenment. Some like Thorstein Veblen would perhaps see regime nature of Germany, Japan, Russia and China to be linked to the too rapid move from agaraianism (vertical power structures, deference to authority) to industralisation.

Hi Dan,

I will recheck your posts. I thought you were saying you accept science to the extent that it does not conflict with Christian scripture. Therfore, if a first century fragment of an alterted Genesis exists, it somehow doesn't exist. Scholars are wrong when the say there appears to have been an attempt to rewrite contridictory parts of the OT, when the OT calendar(Jewish Jubilees) need to fit the Juluian calendar. Eismann has been criticised for tending to treat the Scholls too often as a single corpus, yet can one hold the rewrite of Genises in one's hand today and it does fit the time of the new calandar. It does seem OT re-writers were busy long after the Elohim and Yehweh authors.

Thanks for the full quote which says, I believe,a Sagan believed mutations do occur intergenerationally. If so, what is the issue fundamentalists have with Rusty

where from comes..this fable
why isnt it in the ot

it records/mosus..had a speech-defect..here is how

<<I,..Bilam,/..am chief of..thy-counselors,"..he said, "and deeply learned..in the mysteries/of signs and portents...There is a meaning in all/things.

Remember,..O King,..this/child..is of the Hebrews,..and escaped/thy decree...This play..of-his/..hath a meaning...Should he/be permitted to grow-up,..he will rebel/against..thee..and seek/to..destroy thy rule...Let him/be..judged,..O king."

"Thy words/are wise,"..said Pharaoh,..who was himself/annoyed..with Moses,..and he ordered/three judges..to try the child/for his offence.

Moses thought/it-was..a new-game..and he clapped his hands/gleefully when..they took him/to the court-of-justice..and stood him/in front of the judges...He heard Reuel/plead..on his behalf,..but he did-not understand it.

"I say he/is..but a babe and/does..things/without meaning,"..Reuel exclaimed..."Put him to/the test,..and see/if..he knows the difference/between fire..and gold.

Place before/him..a dish of fire..and a dish/of jewels and gold.

If he grasps/the jewels,..it will prove that/he-is..no ordinary child;..if he places/his hand..to the fire,..then shall..we/be assured..he is merely..a foolish babe."

"So be it,"/said Bilam,/;.."and if he/grasps..the jewels..let his punishment be..instant death."

Pharaoh/and..the judges agreed,..and two dishes,/one containing burning-coals..and the other gold and precious-stones..were brought-in..and placed/before..Moses.

Everybody looked-on/keenly..as Moses stared/at..the dishes...Princess Bathia/made signs to him,..but Bilam ordered/her..to cease..and it was Reuel/who comforted her..and dried her tears.

"Take my magic-staff,"..he said,..handing to her a/stick..that seemed to be made/of..one large precious-stone..."This was given/to Adam..when he left/..the Garden/of..Eden..and has been handed down to me/..through Enoch and Noah,..through Abraham/and Jacob..unto Joseph who left-it..in my keeping.

Take/the staff..and Moses..will/obey..whatsoever be/thy wish."

The princess..took/the staff..and pressed it to her lips.

"I wish,"..she said,.."that my little..water-babe/shall seize..the burning coals."

Moses thrust/his fingers..into the fire/and pulled out a glowing-coal...With a cry,..he put his/fingers..in his mouth/to ease the pain and..burned his tongue..with the coal.

Ever afterward he lisped.>>>

so thats how mosus/got his speach-defect

so much/more...isnt...in the holy/bible
whats the secret?...[the link to majic?]
to retain/exclusive..licence...?

fear?
so many-lies..by ommision
how to rebut/them all

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/jftl/jftl13.htm

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1829/jewish/The-Birth-of-Moses.htm

Dear Dan,

You wrote: "I’m sorry my posts bore you, and that you have stopped wanting to engage with me."

When did I say that your posts bore me? I don't think I said any such thing. That's not my style. If you want to argue with me argue with what I say. Don't put words in my mouth. That habit of yours is most annoying.

I wrote referring to you, "I have stopped any discussion with him on the subject of evolution because I feel it is pointless."

I still feel it is pointless.

You also wrote: "Please don’t say AJ ever had my mindset. In saying that, you’re mistaken."

I may be mistaken, but since you can't know what mindset AJ had you can't be sure I'm mistaken. I cannot read anybody else's mind. I make judgments about mindsets on the basis of what people say. I may be wrong in comparing the mindsets of you and AJ, but you cannot be sure I am wrong. People's minds change. You cannot possibly know what AJ thought in the past. I cannot either, but I can read what you both say.

Dear David,
My apologies. You didn’t say the posts were boring. You said ‘Dan and OUG are both wrong’. (I read boring. I must try and improve on my attempts at speed reading.) I’ll try and read more carefully in future before flying off the handle.

Thanks for pointing out my error.

On your other point – I agree that we can’t read people’s minds. Our best chance of understanding others’ minds is going by what they say. On that basis, you say that AJ had my mindset. I think you are basing it on AJ’s claims that he was once a creationist. I would differ. I’ve never recognised AJ’s ideas on creationism as being the same as mine, despite his claims. I don’t think we ever followed similar thought processes, judging by what he has said. I don’t think he really understands the creationist argument or line of thinking. But if that is your judgement of the matter, then so be it. I just disagree.

Dear Dan,

Certainly one creationist may have a different mindset from another. In taking a bunch of old fables as truth they are engaging in a similar process. I feel it is pointless to argue the matter with anyone who has such beliefs. As long as they don't try to inject those beliefs into the school system I really don't care what they do.

Let it be turtles all the way down.

Dan,

Good on you for first impressions. Is leaping to the first out-of-context quote how you conduct your profesional life? How you impress children?

Did you find the additional Sagan quotes I provided helpful?
Did you notice the clear contrast with your mined quote?

Do you now understand that what Sagan meant is what he said elsewhere in the book you quoted (at least once nearby)? Do you have any idea that selective quoting such as you used is actually misinformative, allows an uninformed reader to take away a false impression of the quoted author? Did you really read Sagan's book, "dragons of Eden" or is that another false impression you are happy to let people make?

Why do you habitually misinform, as for instance about probabilities in dice rolls?

Is it reflective of your practice as a translator and educator that you do so in this forum?

Please explain how fixation of mutations in a selective environment is not imprtant to the "information content" of a genome.

Please give a clear defintion of three types of information known to be encoded by clearly understood components of the genome and how you have developed a way to conveniently measure thses independently and without reference to their heritable variability and selection, without reference to the environment that selects them. Hint: all three may be embodied in the one length of DNA, sharing the same sequence, yet be different to a similar-but-different sequence encoding an identical protein but containing less selectable information.

Drongo.