i love/the way you force/me..to think..oliver

take/cockroaches...as an egsample../more specificlly..
the myth..that they will out survive..humanity....
realise..thats a hypothesis..a theory...

[even if..you take/god out of the picture...human nature..has survival-instinct]...can live in the dark..eating cockroaches..if need be...[we could even farm..them...or burn them for warmth]..

human ingenuety...can over-come most obsticals..
dont sell your brr-others short..
[we/are..at the same time..more smart...or dumb..than any could presume]

<<If a god stopped it,..It would breaking Its own rules>>says the flea to the elephant...[god does as good choses to do..[if he can smite..he can stop/change..anything he pleases.

<<Said God/lets 10,000s/hundreds of thousands..of people die each year..in natural catastrophies>>>BECAUSE..he knows dead aint dead.

<<Besides,/my point was-that..other animals are better adapted than we are>>>how come they arnt...'at the top-of the food-chain..then'...dont dismiss your others so lightly

<<given the certain/various circumastance.>>>humans/seem to rise..to the challange

<<Religion/sees..humans have as being.."special">>>and science sees us as mutants/medicine ses us as lab-rats...govt ses us as tax-payers..big business sees us as a cash-cow.

<<And we are:..Yet/we are..only in specific contexts.>>yes as suits/their adjenda...or as they se ways to make us suit their vairios...unending..needs

<<There/is no guarantee..that the DNA/of some bioform..1,000 meters under a heat-vent/under an ocean..will be around..after our DNA's descendants/are long gone..>>of course not....

but it is likely..that he will/be...
and there is a certainty..he shall still be
a bio-form..with-in..his genus...just as god gave him to be.

'to whom much is given'
dosnt apply/to those to whom..was given so little
they have the nature/of the beast..till their spirit...seeks something different...

one day..it will feel/
see..the light/
decide it'is..good

...and evolve...SPIRITUALLY..into a higher incarnation..in the light

till we seek to do better...
god gives us glimses of better ways..that we chose to do better

this human/life..is the highest evolution...
[in the flesh]..which..our spirits can concieve

its all about knowing/our loves
then defining..it via our living..[the way]

Bugsy,
Of all the people with which I’ve discussed this issue, you come across in my view as one of the most well read. So it surprises me a little that you would ask such a question as why individual people look different.

The answer, of course, as I would presume we both know, and geneticists have known since the days of Mendel, is that genes from each parent are shuffled and recombined in the process of reproduction. So each child is a little different from either parent, but carries a combination of genes from both parents.

So starting with two people, over time you could easily produce millions without any two (leaving twins aside for the moment) looking the same. And this individuality, due to recombination of genes, need have nothing to do with mutation.

The question then becomes from where did the gene pool arise? Evolutionists look to mutations to add genetic information to the genome, accumulated over eons, starting from the simplest of organisms. Creationists say that the original two created people would have had the richness within their genes to provide for the diversity and variation that we now see.

I believe it is pretty commonly accepted by geneticists that all people are descended from the same women, nicknamed Mitochondrial Eve, although young earth creationists would disagree about the time frame.

By the way, I happened to be at Latrobe University the other day, and went to a lunchtime meeting arranged by the Latrobe Secular Society. They had invited some learned fellows from the philosophy department to address the question ‘is creationism science?’ Both were fairly dismissive of creationism, but the first speaker did admit that creationists make certain claims that can be assessed. He said that even if creationism didn’t fit the standard definitions of science, since assessments can be made, better than asking whether it is scientific is to put the question of whether or not it is true.

OUG,

The coachroach was an example. Whether a coachroach would survive would depend on exposure. That was not the point. Th point was, that some animals might survive conditions we would not.

Unless, I am misreading you, you are saying that people are special and that being close to us on a phylogenic scale is good and, distant bad. Rather, what, I am saying (again) is mutation and natural selection provide direction for an animal in response to its adaptability to an ecology.

Creation of "first life" is looking more like involving non-classical phenomena, such as QM.

Dear Dan,

FYI, unless you already know: Genetic Adam and Genetic Eve were born several thousands of years apart. Their remote offspring mated. Genetic Adam and Genetic Eve didn't have sex, their children did. Spencer Wells and now the National Geographic Society are now working to establish the lineages between peoples.

Back in the 1970s, using the ABO groups were the means to check-up the relationships between races. With today's genetics we can not only identify individuals but also their ancestors.

I would suggest that skeptics would see this as evidence against Genesis. Moreover, apart from conservative believers (yourself, OUG, runner), I suspect other theists, like George and Philo, might see their god having an infleunce on the spirituality of their being; rather than scripture being the literal fact of the scriptures of ancient peoples: Scripture for them: an HD digital message by first generation analogue means.

My replies could be slow over the nex few months.

olver/quote..<<..The point was,..that/some animals..might survive conditions we would not...>>>

and mine/is...that as long as one survives...
it will be food..for the smartest..

[evolution..if anything..builds on what was...making it..into what..is}

<<Unless,..I am misreading you>>,..clearly..my words/can only imply generalities,

specifics[definitives]..is a thing..im learning to let go

the words/im using..imply..<<..that people..are special/and that being close to us..on a phylogenic scale..is good and,..distant bad.>>

look at..how we respect/inteligence...

[or that..which/passes for intelect...]

we dont eat dogs/dolphins...yet do eat chickens...[who in actuality..are more intelligent...they have evolved/more..after-all]

<<what,..I am saying..(again)..is mutation and natural selection provide direction..for an animal/in response to its adaptability/to an ecology>>

what im saying is mutation...is physiologically..by appearance..
ie phenotype..[looks/like]...

when as previously revealed..mutation..
specificly occures inside..[geno-typically].

most mutations/are as if..of no affect
and by far deliterious...in affect/
especially when..the same error is present...in both chromosones

think-you..we have not overcome[evolved]..ways to resist..mutantions..negative,..,affects[miss-takes]

my point is god built-them-in,..,from the beginning

<<Creation of.."first life"..is looking/more-like..involving non-classical phenomena,..such as QM.>>>AHHH..the Quantum/Master...

as repeatedly/declared...qm[as you use it]...
occures at the sub-molectular..level...

[way below..that of the micro-level..of chromosones]..
thus way below...so called..mutation

just because...aspects..of quantum/mechanics..resemble..the mechanisitic..mechanic..[god]...

[ie presence.in two places at the same-time...
ability..to be unseen..yet observable..by its consistancies
and the hiden cause of causes

dosnt mean the term[QM]..should be made an answer..
in and of itself
or made more that what the true..QM..is doing..or has done

<<With today's genetics/we can not only identify individuals..but also their ancestors...I would suggest/that..skeptics would see this as evidence..against Genesis.>>..in wghat way...?

evolution..expounds..one mutation..that becomes ancestor
if we rebut/eve..we rebut evolution...!

long-ago..the one origin..was disproved
[ie the claim all life evolved..linialarily...from first life..to us..which is completly delusional...as genetic/testing has affirmed

<<I suspect other theists/..might see their god/having an infleunce on the spirituality..of their being;..>>

spirit..PROVIDES..life-force..the means..

<<..scripture/being the literal fact>>
provides..a...[A]...way

"and mine/is...that as long as one survives...
it will be food..for the smartest.." - OUG

I almost agree. Food for the fitest, would be my qualification. I lived in Singapore for five years, there were reliable accounts of people being eaten tigers in the 1800s and before, well known to their history. The people were mor more intelligent than the tigers, presumably.

Yes, QM relates to the very small. It also relates to the non-classical and that is why it provides an example of how the time problem the confronts classic biogenesis can be explained.

At this time, please excuse if don't give complere answers. Very busy

no need..to/be excused..oliver...allways glad/to think-on..your replies

anyhow/will..now..record some notes..re evolution..[macro]..

evolution[of species]..is founded on myths/poor scollarship...
circular reasoning..faulty premise..and a wishfull-doses/of athiestic thought..

so i will/note..some thought...by real/scientists

george-gaylord/simpson...'it is inherant...in any/definition of science..that statements/..that cannot-be..checked/confirmed..by observation..are not-really..about/..anything..[or at least..they are/not science''..

evolution..doers-not meet/..scientific criteria...
its not observable...not repeatable..nor the subject of experimentation,
..[thus has/no faulsifyables]..thus/isnt..science
[this is/a point of cominality..with religion...which/isnt a science either]

thus/we have..two BELIEF/systems...
opposing forms of faith...only one claims/knows..its faith..
the other fraud/delusion..thinking it/not..based on faith..lol

at best/..evolution/exta genus..is a theory..or a hypothesis..
or an unproven.educated guess..based on looks like..not the cause underlying...the phenotype/expressed..by its genomic-quantum[geno-type]

darwin-ism..held/holds..mans-accent..from a single-cell/creature..
by using loose words..like..'we suppose'..or 'it may/must have been'..or..'possably..probably'..or..'we may guess/assume'..but in the end/..its simple-deception....A/con

there/is a seeming..impression of solidarity..based on ignorance..
and faith in their fellow decievers/co-conspiritors..
many having a..vested-intrest..in the grand/deceit..
but not..all/..scientists/have been..conned

piere.p.de-grassie,,quote...''unfortunatly..the theoretical/interpritations,,,of the facts..leaves one..dis-satisfied..and occasionally exsaperated'''

[by those/..ignorantly..espousing beliefs..in lue of..FAULSIFYABLE-science/fact]

dobzhansky/quote....lol...

'..it is possable/that in this/..domain..[biology..impotant]..yields/the floor to meta-physics'..lol

paul/lemoine..'

the theories..of evolution...with-which..our studious-youth..have been decieved..constitute..actually/a dogma..that all the world/continues..to teach..''

..''but each..in his speciality...the zooligist..or the botanist..ascertains..that none/of the explanations..is adequate''

...''it results..from this summery..that evolution is impossable''..

soren/lovtrop..

'only one possability/remains..the darwinian/theory..of..natural-selection..wether/or not..coupled..with mendelism..is faulse''..

spephen/stanley...admits...

'the fosil-record..fails to document/a single egsample..of phyletic-evolution..accomplishing..a major morpological transition...hence offers ...NO EVIDENCE...that the gradulism-model..can be valid''..

lipson/quote..
'to my kmind...the theory..does/not standup..at all'

michael/denton...

now..of course/such claims..are simply non-sense..for darwins/model..of evolution..is still..very/much..a theory..and still very/much..in doudt...when it comes/to..macro-evolutionary phenomina

leavit/..

'protoplasm..evolving a universe..is a superstition..more pitiable/than paganism'..

dr/tahmisian/quote..

'scientist's..who go/about..teaching/that evolution is fact...are great con-men...and the story/..they are selling..may-be the greatest hoax....ever

dr/louis bounoure...

'evolution..is a fairy-tale..for grownups..
this theory/has..helped nothing..in..the progress..of/science'

heribert/nilson...

'the idea of evolution/rests..on pure/belief'

dr/albert-fleishman..

'the darwinian..theory/of..decent...has not/one..single fact to confirm..it../in the realm of nature...it/is not the result..of science-research...but..the product/of..pure imagination'

dr/eldridge..

'there is not one..particle/of evidence..of the transmutation..,of species''

the list is endless..good people...DECIEVED...by frauds..
just as in/religion..as in science...and law/and govt..
and medical-industry..all frauds..based on peers/presure's