Wow!. This is such a pissing contest..

Men V Women. MAsculist V Feminist.

All I know is that any group that is extreme has a Narsistic Sense of Entitlement.. CAn we please stop the blame game and stop having perpetrators and victims.. Just another game of cowboys and Indians and cops and robbers.. Good V bad.

Men and women do some horrible things and both are capable of it. Lets stops empowering one gender at the expense of another.

Please men and women, Take responsibility and stop the blame game..Its nothing but excuses..

I love youse(sic) all..

On Sunday I sat with others and watched Col Stringer speak about the 800 horsemen of the Australian Light Horse and their charge against overwhelming odds. He spoke of Honour and Courage,of Mateship and Humility. What a great testimony of out-STANDING men (even though they were sitting). Brought tears to my eyes and resolve to my soul.

Pynchme.
I'll make time to read some of the stuff on that link you posted.
Here's something else you might be interested in.
http://www.menweb.org/svofarre.htm
http://www.warrenfarrell.net/index.html

Well Jay I hope you have read some material from that site.

I was disappointed when I saw your Farrell links. I am quite familiar with his material and history.

I thought you were advocating for some positive collaboration to free everyone caught in the patriarchal web.

http://www.xyonline.net/content/book-review-myth-male-power-why-men-are-disposable-sex-warren-farrell

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/fathers/farrell2.htm#note

http://angelzfury.blogspot.com/2010/02/warren-farrell-does-custody-evaluation.html

Please read the note at the bottom of the page:

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/fathers/farrell6.htm

"I believe he serves as an apologist for the so-called "men's rights" groups. I believe too that his writings reflect a Euro-centered homophobic and middle-class traditionally-male perspective;
for me, that is dangerous to the survival of us all. I agree that pro-feminism for males in our society is a process. Fortunately
there are writers and scholars such as Joe Pleck, Bob Brannon, Al Lott, among others.
I appreciate this opportunity. I hope that my comments might reach some others who have long questioned Farrell's motives."
Steve Grubman-Black
Professor with joint appointment in Communicative Disorders and in Women's Studies University of Rhode Island

and

"I would just add names like Bob Connell, Michael Kaufman and Michael Messner to the list of feminist men who write about men's issues. Perhaps it would be useful for us to make visible some of the men who have written intellectually interesting and challenging work about masculinity which is not misogynist but which helps us to understand the ways in which men are damaged by patriarchy."

Laurie Finke, Women's and Gender Studies, Kenyon College, Gambier, OH 43022

and

"Harry Brod's anthology _A Mensch Among Men_ (Crossing Press, 1988) is a specifically Jewish example of writing about men which is not anti-feminist."

Dennis Fischman

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~korenman/wmst/farrell_who.html

'Euro-centered .... and middle-class traditionally-male perspective'

How Dangerous!

Much better an Asian-centred low class traditionally-female perspective. Pity we all cant actually be low class (or even high class) female and Asian or African so we can have a less dangerous perspective on life.

'men who have written intellectually interesting and challenging work about masculinity which is not misogynist but which helps us to understand the ways in which men are damaged by patriarchy'

Indeed. I'm sure it's as prevalent as intellectually interesting and challenging work about femininity which is not misandrist. Maybe even any feminist analysis that doesn't see all women solely as victims with no responsibility, or those really edgy ones where women are 'compliant'.

Keep watching out for that patriarchal web pynch.

Euro Centric?
Well what has Feminism done for non European Women?
Fix what you can fix within your own society and keep pushing it forward, let the others develop independently just as we were allowed to.
Just because other societies aren't developing at the same rate or in the same form doesn't mean we should stop and wait for them to catch up.
Sheesh...Break one dialectic and a new one appears.
There's no such thing as a divide between developing and developed worlds.
A developed world would be a complete world at the end of it's intellectual and spiritual resources.
We're all developing just at different rates.
The "Patriarchal System" has to play out to it's conclusion in every society as we all move forward, if it takes another thousand years for,say Africans then that's how long it takes.