Benk <" For example, Suze has a long history of self-righteous grandstanding when any bloke is too harsh and yet, when Severin is out of line, I’m told to lighten up."

A long history? Can you give me an example of which response was self-righteous grandstanding Benk?
Was it perhaps a response to the delightful Antiseptic?
More like standing up for myself, I would suggest?
A terrible trait in a woman, I know!

I wouldn't mind betting that Severin has never been given a two week suspension, or anything near it, for abuse etc on this forum?
No?
I rest my case.

Thanks, Suze - no I have never been suspended either as my present incarnation or as Fractelle.

I do stick up for my right to present my opinion as I have also supported the right of others to present their posts free of personal abuse and insult.

Benk, if disagreeing with you is "out of line" on an internet forum, how do you cope with the women in your life who may not always agree with you?

Is this what Marsh means by "sacred masculinity"?

'Benk, if disagreeing with you is "out of line" on an internet forum, how do you cope with the women in your life who may not always agree with you?

Is this what Marsh means by "sacred masculinity"?'

That's priceless from the 'excuse me for having an opinion while being female' queen!

BTW: I've never been suspended either.

PS: I beginning to like you girls. I thought you were both just pretty thick, but now I think the appearance of not understanding benk and deliberate misrepresentation (and rstuart on another thread) is a brilliant wind up job.

Suze

"I rest my case" Having proved nothing. It is hard to counter arguments that you have made little attempt to understand.

Once or twice, I have commented about paternalism- the attitude that women need more protection than men. You example, when Anti is critical of any women or I was critical of Severin, you jushed in save them, because you think that women need protection. When I got angry with Severin, you basically told be to toughen up, because this is your idea of how men should act. These gender roles help no-one.

I know that you don't mean to be sexist, you rarely hear paternalism being discussed. Remember, when feminism started, many men behaved in ways that are no longer considered acceptable. We didn't mean to be unfair, we just hadn't thought about what we were doing. Fortunately, most of us didn't see being asked to change as an attempt to control us.

Which brings me to Severin

"how do you cope with the women in your life who may not always agree with you?"

Generally, I start by listening carefully to their objections and deciding which of their arguments sound reasonable. Where they are reasonable, I make the necessary changes. When I disagree with what they are saying, I carefully explain why. If I cannot persuade them, I look for a compromise solution. This is how a mature adult behaves.

I don't misrepresent their statements to make them easier to attack.

I have never assumed that they disagree with me purely because I am male.

I certainly don't see being asked to change as being controlled.

Hope this helps.

Hiya all,

I am getting a bit of a laugh out of some the personal attacks coming from the femi-Nazi's and the masculists. Why can't you see some of the other persons point of views. I think its because THERE IS AN AGENDA.. Come clean guys and girls.. Tis hard to respect the extreme views and the Psuedo intellectual rhetoric..

"Evidence that feminists are not widely in opposition to men/males/masculinity includes Farrell's acceptance as a member of a small, local feminist chapter in NY (which is not the national centre btw) in the 1970s when feminism might be seen as in its most revolutionary stage. He was later ejected from the feminist movement after his views on incest became know via an interview published in Penthouse.

"Feminism rejects any exploitation of children."

Hello! The above line was just an excuse to get him out of the feminist movement because he challenged the philosophy..

Warren Farrell wrote some poingiant things but he also wrote some crap too..

"Feminism destroyed the family? I don't suppose centuries of abuse and child molestation had anything to do with a loss of blind confidence in male "servant leadership" and the idealized (as we never were) family image. It's also a fact that non-Christian people maintain well functioning family units. Christianity doesn't own the family model." (Love this one)..

Funny part is is both men and women are abusers. Women do it differently to men and by no means is this any softer.. The worst scars are the ones you don't see...

Both sexes need to take resposibility for the scars that they produce..

Those that deny the problem become part of the problem and not the solution..

Women do not need protection and men do not need to be bastardized..

I have met some abominable people of both genders.. Get over yourselves.. (Just check out Parental Alienation Syndrome)..

HAve fun...

"As Suze said you can fight for the rights of women or children without hating men."

But you can also fight for the rights of children to love both men and women and not have any gender barriers to that process..

Take away the (WIIFM) and something to gain and children might have a chance..

Parents screw children up and stop pointing fingers at who is to blame..

Femi Nazi's and Masculists should all stick to their own kind so they can believe the Bull Shite they are peddling.. (Go buy an Island)..

Cheers.