sharkfin a lot of dads will be the same, some will just respond to the ongoing attacks differently.

For years the mum's lobby has played the game of pretending to want to protect kids by attacking men but staying very quiet about abuse and neglect by mums. They've attacked dad's for having concerns about unfair financial issues as though it's only men who have an interest in that issue while ignoring those mum's who clearly use child custody issues to get a bigger slice of the handout cake.

I'm seriously over the way the very ugly posts of Chaz and others are not criticised by those who take the high moral ground against Anti and other "bitter" men. The silence from some is deafening.

I'm over those who want to turn child residency into a popularity contest (with an initial genitalia test). The parent who does not discipline, the parent who gives children what they want rather than what they need, the parent who has done the best job of sabotaging the other will win that one to often to the detriment of the children. I've heard the comment more than once, our job is to be their parent not their best friend.

I'm over those who think the arrangements put in place by a family which was not working well should be the ones which determine the future.

I'm over those who think that a dad who was involved in his kids lives every evening and weekend is somehow having the same involvement having the kids every second weekend.

I know there are men who just don't get it as fathers, I've seen a couple of cases up fairly close but I've also seen the mum's who while having the "caring" role don't get the responsibility of trying to teach their children reasonable behavioral boundaries.
Both genders can put their own wants and issues above the welfare of their children, both can fail to do what it takes to be a good parent.

While some continue to make it a gender war real solutions are hard to reach.

R0bert

Yes sharkfin women ARE more suited by nature to care for the children it is the very essence of our species. If my daughters mother had been a good and caring one as most are, and had given me plenty of good time with our daughter i would have been more than happy to leave her in her mothers care. The sad fact is though, that she cared little for our daughters welfare and even minimised my access to maximise the child support she received.
The ex had well documented mental problems [since diagnosed as BPD] but she refused to take the medication she was prescribed. If you know anything about BPD you may have some idea of the abuse i had to put up with during the 5 years we lived together, as a consequence of her condition i did much of the child rearing myself. It was i who changed many nappies and toilet trained her, it was i who did much of the feeding and taught her to feed herself, it was i who would sit on her bed at night and read her a bedtime story etc etc. I did all this and held down a job yet when we split up it was she who was seen as the primary caregiver,WHY?.
When a mother is obviously unable or unprepared to care for a child surely a decent father should be the first option looked at, NOT leaving a child in such an abusive situation for 3 years. I'm sure many other men could fulfill the role of primary caregiver as i did, in these cases, unfortunately we are hardly ever given the chance and even then usually only after a lengthy and costly court battle while the mother is almost always the one who receives the free legal aid.
There are 2 sides to every story but unfortunately the current government is only listening to one side and this will be very much to the detriment of our children if Ms Biggs gets her way.

'I'm seriously over the way the very ugly posts of Chaz and others are not criticised by those who take the high moral ground against Anti and other "bitter" men. The silence from some is deafening.'

Oh Robert. Why would the female posters make comment on the words of their attack dogs? This is an us and them women vs men debate after all.

For all anti's faults, one of the first comments on this topic jumped in accusing him of being a kiddie fiddler.(It was thankfully removed). I cant believe he just shrugged that one off, I would have been going nuts. The guy dishes it out but takes it back in spades that's for sure.

I don't think you can expect the female posters to relinquish their position of morally superior. It goes in hand with women being made from sugar and spice and all that. Face it, as some have posted, they're just better parents. Better people all round even. Guaranteed to be putting the kiddies first. Who are you gonna believe in any argument between a woman and a man. When a woman fights for her children, she's the maternal carer doing what's best for the children. When a man fights for his children, he's an abusive controller in it for himself. I think it's the crux of the whole debate.

Women are just better people and 'natural' parents. It's the foundation, the starting point men have an up hill battle from ever over turning. The feminists don't even seem to want to explode this myth. Women can be or do anything a man can do, but men still cant be as good a carer as a woman. It's what holds women back from true equality.

BTW Suze: Any comments on Chaz's last post? Then again, I've heard it said anyone who knows the meaning of the word misandrist is by definition a misogynist. Of course it doesn't work the other way around for some reason.

While I'm certainly no supporter of the misogynist drivel endlessly posted by Antiseptic, formersnag etc, I don't think ChazP's recent comments in this thread are any more helpful than theirs are.

It seems as though I’ve hit a really raw nerve with the FR Rednecks by suggesting that their motivations are because they have underlying feelings of inadequacy, and insecurity. Many young women now are asking a serious question of themselves, `What do I actually need a permanent male partner for'.?. And many are actually forming a conclusion that they don't need a male partner.
My retorts have always been in response to attacks by the FR Rednecks and in like vein. Or is it only they who are allowed to be insulting and to revile and denigrate others.?. I do not want this to be a gender war, but sadly there are those individuals whose only reson detre’ is to stoke that particular fire.

Studies have shown that during marriages and de facto relationships that the average father spends approximately 6 hours per week with their children. They spend more time in the `Shed’, or watching sports, or at the pub. Why is it then that after separation they suddenly have this overwhelming interest in their children and to have a `meaningful relationship’ with them and which they never pursued before?. Go figure – Follow the money!.

There are over 125,000 children in Australia for whom separated parents. (largely fathers) make no financial contribution to their care and upbringing and are being subsidised by Australian taxpayers. So fathers who plead they are sucked dry are an extinct species.

I will reiterate my position which is that children’s needs, wishes, and rights should be paramount in any Family Law proceedings and decisions on their futures should be mesaurably and demonstrably to their benefit, children's wishes and views must be more effectively made known to the Courts, parents must be thoroughly and competently assessed regarding their prior involvement in the child’s life and their parenting skills, and that allegations of child abuse and domestic violence must be thoroughly and competently investigated. These are the major recommendations of Professor Justice Chisholm and the government must implement them immediately

ChazP

While I do not agree with you that women are inherently better carers than men, I do support your courage in stirring the pot.

Women continue to be judged more harshly than men, as evidenced on these pages. Your comments, while provocative, are a long way from the depths of bullying and denigration as spouted by an embittered contingent of males on OLO.

R0bert

Given your deafening silence on the sheer hostility that is the regular posturing of Formersnag, Antiseptic et al, I have to comment that your complaint about the lack of criticism of ChazP's more extreme views, rings hollow.

Am I to conclude that one woman behaving badly is unacceptable, but par for the course for male behaviour?