Houllie

No one is going to take righteous indignation from you seriously. It just isn't you.

Severin

Regarding DV and what happens in shelters; Fractelle was right into this false dichotomy where everything needs to be either all his fault or all her fault. She used to assure us that any criticism of her or expectation that she could fix her own problems equalled blaming the victim. But of course, you are completely different to her...

Pynchme

The blokes that are the problem don't even understand the word "masculinity." The language that Jensen used was far too tosserish to convince these guys of anything. Secondly, these guys don't have as much interest in reforming society etc. Changing would need to appear to be in their interests. At the moment alpha males get all of the toys. Stop that and you will be stunned at how fast these guys can change. Remember the early 90's, when these blokes became convinced that snags got the girls and they all pretended to be all sensitive?

Benk

I am Fractelle. My only explanation for your interpretation of her/my posts is that maybe I was not clear enough. I will try to be clearer in future.

R0bert

I apologise on behalf of all little girls for the psychological damage a single poem made upon your psyche. Now fellows, how about apologising for every time you have used the intimation that a man is a bit feminine as an insult.

Anti

You must lead a very sheltered existence, go out and meet a few women, get to know them, make friends.

severin:"you avoid offering insults to me and I'll avoid doing so to you"

Severin:"You must lead a very sheltered existence, go out and meet a few women, get to know them, make friends."

I take it back, you're far too much of a man to ever accept an offer such as I made...

Severin:"Now fellows, how about apologising for every time you have used the intimation that a man is a bit feminine as an insult."

Why? It IS an insult, just as referring to hairy legs is an insult. It implies that the person is lacking an essential quality that defines the way their gender is expressed. See above.

And please don't try to turn this into a gay-bashing claim. There are many homosexual men who are not in the least feminine. Think of Ian Roberts, Steven Fry, Graham Chapman. Ditto for lesbians: Portia de Rossi, the Brady Bunch girls, Meredith Baxter; not a hairy leg in sight.

Benk:"At the moment alpha males get all of the toys. Stop that and you will be stunned at how fast these guys can change."

You're buying into the notion of social constructionalism which I reject as no more than Leninism writ small.

Masculinity and femininity have some pretty obvious disjunctures, which any social construction can do no more than paper over.

As Goebbels said, so much better:"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."

Trying to make people into something they are not is doomed to failure.

Trying to make people into something they are not is doomed to failure.Posted by Antiseptic, Thursday, 4 March 2010 9:30:39 AM

That has worked for many a single positionist.
I thought this discussion was actually going somewhere but ohwell.

Anti

At the moment, there is one type of bloke that seems to be on top of the pile. Alpha males are noted for being very confident, competitive and assertive, even aggressive. These blokes are top of the pecking order in school. As you pointed out in your NRL thread, these blokes get promoted further in many workplaces. For all of the women complaining about the shortage of nice men, it often appears that these men have the least trouble getting girlfriends. There are examples of these blokes getting further in any walk of life.

Pynchme was concerned by claims that porn featuring the ritual humiliation of the actress is very popular. If this type of porn is at all popular, then I agree that this says something troubling about the way that male viewers have been taught to act. Houllie claims that amateur porn is more popular and I don't believe that there is anything wrong with that other type of porn.

I simply argued that men won't change while nice guys finish last. Some of us manage to be blokey without being a complete tosser. It is annoying thinking that we could have gone further in life, if we had been a bit more of a mongrel.