Just two questions, KatieO.

>>But the erosion of Australian institutions and freedoms via Islam-creep is increasingly hard to ignore, and I don’t believe tolerance is a biblical response<<

Which Australian institutions and freedoms are being eroded by "Islam-creep"? So far you have only managed to illustrate the precise opposite, that the administration of the law is as robust as ever.

And are you absolutely certain that tolerance is not a biblical response? Whatever happened to "but I tell you who hear me: love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you."

I was sure that it is biblical.

Or are you as selective as Boaz in your interpretations?

TOLERANCE and the Bible

Pericles.. its time you actually 'read' it. Jesus himself was scathing of religious leaders, lawyers and hypocrites in general.
He did not tolerate them.
Paul was not tolerant of those who 'preached a different gospel' read for yourself in Galatians 1

The 'in'tolerance of both Jesus and Paul, is connected with the Kingdom of God, in 'The Body' of Christ, we do not tolerate either false teaching or hyprocritical living...in theory anyway...

How in the heck does CJ see something which quacks, has feathers, webbed feet, a broad flat bill and NOT....see a duck... he sees a rooster.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22370116-2,00.html
Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said in May that Islamist groups represented the "biggest threat to the stability and security of Germany".

Well of course, using CJ and or Pericles 'tolerant' reasoning, the Interior minister of Germany (who obviously knows nothing) is 'Islamophobic' for the sake of it.

Err..no, he is reflecting genuine concerns about how 'normal' German young men, can be converted to Islam, and then.. how something goes wrong with their brains and they make plans to blow up half the country... in the name of Islam.

This is the very reason why I goto considerable efforts in OLO to raise awareness...there are Australians who are converting and developing the SAME attitudes. Some are on trial now.

They have access to the same news as CJ and PERICLES.. so...'how' did they go from 'normal' to 'radical' in Islams name ?

Now that we have 'exposed' the German Islamophobia.. lets not forget the Danes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6977741.stm

Australia
Germany
Denmark
Spain
America
England
Algeria
Morocco
France (riots)

ALL... having Islamic radicals and bombs as a common theme.
yep..I'm just obsessed :)

Ok, so not all A’s are bad .
Like all groups, A’s got it share of goods bads
And ‘some of my best friends are …’

But Ay!, I’m not a member of the Areopagus (or AA for that matter!)
But it seems to me that there are more bads in the A, A team than in B,C,or D, A teams –at least nowadays . And the bads that are in the A, A team, aspire to badness on a astronomical scale.

And what I find aspecially alarming is that both the good A’s & the bad A’s,
take their authority from a book –a book that has a lot of bad ( and good!).
Bad, which the goods currently ignore (no doubt, for a1 reasons)but...should an atypical situation arise where there are not be enough meal-tickets to go around , might not the good A’s choose to be born–again as bad A’s ( as ‘appened in anonymous country under the ‘aliban and another anonymous country under the ayatollah).

Some, statesmen, argue we should keep our mouths shut, not antagonize –then we’d be all, A-OK!, and after all, that’s how the bad A’s would like us to behave –until they become the alite – then they’ll give everyone else, the big A.

Now I’m no orator – but ay!, what do you say ? ah, I mean, what are we aloud to say about A’s, nowadays?

Australia
Germany
Denmark
Spain
America
England
France

ALL... having Christian clergy and sexual abuse of children as a common theme.

yep..you're just obsessed :)

Let me see if I understand this.

From what you say, Boaz and KatieO, Christianity is an intolerant religion - did I get that bit right? - justified by the intolerance of its leading light, Jesus.

This intolerance is targetted at "religious leaders, lawyers and hypocrites", according to Boaz. That's a pretty broad set of targets, especially if you include all religious leaders, all lawyers and all hypocrites. So, it's fair to say that intolerance is widespread amongst Christians, yes?

Why exactly is this a good thing?

If you take a linear scale with intolerance at one end and tolerance at the other, wouldn't you find authoritarianism and dictatorship close to the intolerant end, with democracy and reliance upon the rule of law at the tolerant end?

(We are not talking "tolerance = do as you please" here. We are talking as grown-ups, about a human trait that accepts that people are not all born with identical characteristics, characters or aspirations. I know that Christians like to believe that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their belief system must by definition practice bestiality, but we know that isn't actually the case, don't we?)

Apart from the power trip that this attitude obviously engenders, what precisely is the positive contribution that Christian intolerance provides?

>>TOLERANCE and the Bible
Pericles.. its time you actually 'read' it<<

Actually, Boaz, I did read it. That's where the quote comes from.

And why the inverted commas around "read"?

Which part of "but I tell you who hear me: love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you" did I misinterpret?

To answer Pericles: why should I tolerate the intolerable? Can I not hate the sin but still love the sinner? Matthew 5:44 shines a light in this dark place: Not fear, but prayer. Not hate, but love. Not enemies, but fellow sinners, all under God's judgement. Matthew 5:48 summarizes the passage, imploring us to "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Humbly, we can only but try. Realistically, we can only but fall short.

It would be unconscionable to compromise my beliefs by being silent and uncritical of a minority attempt to restrict open and frank discussion of all issues, especially religion. I accept your freedom to choose your words so carefully, and your beliefs. That is not an exercise of tolerance, but of love.

Under the guise of tolerance, I could be silent, self-censor and not post on this debate. As with Khaled Abu Toameh, the Palestinian journalist quoted in Pt.2, you will be left wondering if I am part of the silent majority, unsure if my actions are due to fear or sympathy.

Numerous examples in my thread of Islamisation (taqquia, denying a child the right to be raised by his mother, forcing Jewish people to take extreme measures to protect their children on Australian soil, denial of equal rights for man and woman, and the constant fear of perseuction), then there are the prayer rooms at UWS, and outside of this discussion halal food in my fridge, sharia finance being introduced at NAB, discussion of “sin industries” on Bloomberg News, the Catch the Fire Ministries’ trial, but to continue on with this list just seems to polemize the thread, not my intention. All in all, if I am given a choice between the two, I would prefer this subtle lack of integration rather than an outright invasion (thanks Mr Putin, that $6Bn will do nicely).

Pleased to see you can thumb through your bible to arrive at an appropriate passage. I'll be sure to divert your free copy elsewhere, problem is, the places I would like to send it will most likely burn it.