NNS,

Few issues in recent years have so divided people
as has the morality of abortion. Until relatively recently
the practice was generally illegal except under limited
conditions - primarily where the health of the mother or
the unborn child was at serious risk.

However "backstreet"abortions by private physicians or
even untrained practitioners were fairly common.

Today not surprisingly opinion polls show public
confusion on the issue of abortion.

The great majority of the population supports abortion in
cases of rape, incest, or a threat to the mother's life,
but support for a mother's right to abortion on demand
fluctuates between just over and just under half of the
population.

In any event the abortion rate must be seen in the context
of social changes in premarital, marital, and family life,
particularly the climate of sexual permissiveness and the
sens of individualism that leads people to make decisions
primarily in terms of their personal desires rather than of
traditional norms.

To Foxy.

The more you know about abortion the worse you realize that it is. When I was a kid, I thought along the ideas that it's a woman's choice, a woman's body, and no man should have a say about it. There were several mixed messages about how horrible men are in society, so that idea of protecting women and protecting their choice was a dominate idea for me back then. Perhaps it was an idea drilled into school kids heads much like other activists ideas for better or worse, that get taught and indoctrinated into children who don't question it.

Then the moral issues come into play. The arguments of a woman's body and a woman's choice lose ground when considering the baby's body, and their assumed choice to want to live. Arguments of the need for abortion based on the social situation the mother might be in, such as poverty, or otherwise a bad situation, also come up short when considering if you should kill a newborn under the same situations. Which leads to the justification that the unborn is not a baby. The truth is in the pictures. And we have gotten a lot of ultrasound pictures of babies still in the womb. All of these things come with just the smallest amount of knowledge regarding abortion and just thinking about it as a moral sense and nothing more.

(Continued)

(Continued)

However go into deeper waters and abortion goes away from a moral thing, and possibly a thing that men have no right to comment on, into a truly sickening thing. The sort of thing that is compared to holocaust ovens to get rid of the mass amounts of cruel and needless deaths. The knowledge starts with just the numbers. How many abortions occur each year. This moral issue becomes sickening by understanding the volume of the practice.

Then comes the method. How the abortions are done is a barbaric tell that I looked into only to find horror and disgust. Add that to the scale that it's done and it is a truly savage practice. But then it gets worse. The last piece of the puzzle is that this is an industry. And then it clicks into place the lobbyist and the persuasion you hear about for laws to let girls get abortions without the need of their parent's knowledge or consent. There is an industry for abortions. Doctors and facilities that are only there for the sole purpose of abortions, and they are always busy. Then the question comes up. Do you let your kids go to surgery without your knowledge or consent? And yet it's become a thing that should be allowed and even encouraged for young girls to do instead of talking to their parents. Something is very very wrong when the monetary value of abortions is added into the equations.

I fear that there is still more to learn about abortion. That it's still somehow worse then all of this. But the truth is that the more you know the worse it is. People who are on the fence about abortion are on the fence because they don't know.

'People who are on the fence about abortion are on the fence because they don't know.'

almost NNS they don't want to know.

Dear mhaze,

Oh this might be really good fun.

You said; “Dropped the NYC issue I see....good idea.”

I haven't dropped NYC at all its just that the figures you were putting up were so fantastical that I was a little gobsmacked.

You said: “Remember that's 7770 in a total count of 1,036,723 deaths.”

The place doesn't even have 9 million inhabitants. So they expected deaths of 1 in every 9 residents? Lol.

Mate go back and have a good hard look at the figures. I will admit to missing you when you went off with your tail between your legs last time so I'm giving you yet another chance to reassess.

Take it.

NNS,

Many women feel that a decision about abortion should be
a strictly personal one, and they deeply resent other
people insisting that they should bear a child they do
not want to have.

But here too there are ambiguities. Half the genes in
the fetus were contributed by the father, and although the
woman must bear the child, society may make the father
responsible for the child's support for nearly decades
thereafter.

If the father waives his responsibility - for example
deserting the mother - then of course he has no further
rights in the matter. But if he accepts his
responsibility and wants the child born, what are his
rights in relation to the mother's right to control
her body?

And, for those who believe that the fetus is human,
there is a third party present; the mother is
controlling not only her own body, but somebody else's
potential body and life.

There are other abortion-related issues that go
beyond the immediate concerns of the parents. Some see
abortion as the thin end of a wedge leading to
euthanasia or the "mercy killing" of defective newborns
and infirm old people.

Some point out that the global population is soaring
uncontrollably at a time when we cannot adequately feed
hundreds of millions already alive. Some argue that
because abortion will occur whether it is legal or not,
it is better that it take place legally and under proper
medical supervision.

Some claim that the welfare expenditures and other costs
of raising millions of unwanted and often illegitimate
children must be taken into account in any decisions about
abortion.

Some have firm personal opinions about abortion but are
unwilling to impose their views on others who may have
different views. And as time goes on, the legal, ethical,
and medical complexities have not abated.

We could go on discussing this matter. Few issues
in recent years have so divided the country as has the
morality of abortion. But I don't want to divert runner's
thread so I'll leave it here.