Loudmouth,
Is it not the case, that given the right circumstances, sun, soil, and water, seeds get carried by the wind and many plants grow prolifically and become an un-welcome species in some situations, such as pattersons curse.
If not sprayed to kill it off it spreads for 'miles' left unchecked, and this stuff is poisonous to livestock.
So if this one species is 'natural', so then could others be the same.
Now I know that crops have to be seeded by an external means, but when the fauna is natural to the environment it grows 'naturally', it does not get 'farmed', it just grows and all one has to do is gather it up.
If these species being discussed here fall within these parameters then this would clear things up, without question or doubts, and would negate the idea that the blacks were once 'farmers'?.

As to the great Kangaroo Grass debate...I don't know if you've actually grown the stuff but its as hardy as any plant you'll find.

Additionally, since it clumps, its rather easy to get great volumes of 'reeds' with little effort - scythes not required.

And it self seeds prolifically, farming and cultivation not required. Indeed even varieties that are sold as non-self seeding, self seed.

But might I point out a rather inconvenient fact. In the Middle-East and Europe, stone age peoples found some grasses that they were able to use to get grain. By selecting and cultivation they were able to develop a range of grains, (the best being wheat) that eventually allowed them to create surpluses. From that came settlements, then villages, then cities and civilisation.

Ditto in east Asia with regards to rice.

Ditto in South America with regards to maize.

Diligence and hard work resulted in the rise of modern man.

Kangaroo grass could have served the same purpose here. The wild versions of wheat, for example, don't look promising as a primary food source. But it became so by the ingenuity of the early farmers.

As for the aboriginal....

Narelle,

My apologies for not responding earlier but I had used
up my postings.

Welcome to the Forum

The Budj Bim site will not be blocked off from the world.
In fact the opposite will happen.

There are 3 main benefits of being added to the World
Heritage site list.

1) Recognition of Gunditjimara achievements.
2) Increased protection of the site.
3) Potential tourism boost.

In May the Andrews government in Victoria committed
$5.7 million for preserving and promoting Aboriginal
heritage, in large part to complete the master plan
for Budj Bim in anticipation of an increase in global
attention to the World Heritage listing will bring.

mhaze,

What "fantasy world?"

Historians, writers, archaeologists, academics, are
now re-thinking Australia's perceptions of Indigenous
land management. They are the ones arguing that the
first Australians had complex systems of agriculture
that went beyond the hunter-gatherer tag.

That they were in fact, our first farmers, whose intimate
knowledge of managing native plants and animals sustained
them for thousands of years.

If you prefer not to hear these arguments. It's your
choice.

All I can do is recommend works that I found useful.
Indigenous writer Bruce Pascoe has recently published a book
called "Dark Emu: Black seeds, agriculture or accident?"
It challenges the popular perception of our Indigenous
past. He covers the wrtings of many explorers including
Sturt.

Pascoe's book echoes historian Bill Gammage's "The Biggest
Estate on Earth: How Aborigines made Australia." Also
worth a read.

You made the statement that the heritage listing of the
Budj Bim site was and I quote - a "cynical attempt to
muddy the waters." Really?

Well, it took a decades long campaign for this to happen
by traditional owners. This landscape has been cared for
over thousands of years and is so important to the
Gunditjmara people. They are so proud to now be able to
share their achievements and story with the world.

Foxy,

Pascoe talks of 'black seeds'. Did he mean kangaroo grass ? You've got the book, so you could help the discussion by telling us ignoramuses.

So what else did Aboriginal people plant ? But why plant something which is everywhere ? And with digging tools, i.e. cultivating tools, which nowadays are non-existent ? i.e. none in Museums ?

Can you understand why some of us are sceptical ? Do you expect us to simply believe, like you're the pastor of some crack-pot evangelical church ? To go all happy-clappy over some pretty wild theory, for which you provide no real evidence ? That we should believe without question ? Because you can cite Authority off of Google ?

Joe

Thank you Foxy.

"Welcome to the Forum

The Budj Bim site will not be blocked off from the world.
In fact the opposite will happen.

There are 3 main benefits of being added to the World
Heritage site list.

1) Recognition of Gunditjimara achievements.
2) Increased protection of the site.
3) Potential tourism boost."

Hopefully tourism can be boosted by opening a restaurant nearby and using eels freshy caught and served to eager tourists - Maybe Pascoe could organise that.
Narelle

Good one, Narelle :)

Joe