//Come on Paul, what universe do you inhabit? It can't be this one. Some day you'll surprise me by making a sensible comment.

All the crims have no need of stealing a shotgun, they have access to all the firearms the law denies the honest citizen.//

Hassy when are you going to catch up, this mass murderer in Darwin did have a need to steal a legal firearm to carry out his rampage. So your claim about ALL does not apply.

Issy,

//By following the law and keeping guns securely locked up// We just can't trust the gunnies to do that, Darwin a point in question. What ratio of accidental/murderous/mistaken death to legitimate self defence deaths would you accept as the price to pay for this self defence? One to one, two to one.

I don't know how many more times I need to say this but 'ere goes again !
National Service is not, repeat, not Military Service !
National Service is as Belly & o sung wu rightly suggested,a community based service during which mentality poor & responsibility deficient young people will be exposed to a healthier mentality & doses of responsibility. It will rub off on them & many I'd imagine make it in turn rub off on their parents. It's a win, win & win again scenario !
Those opposing such a service need to be enlightened on the fact that one needs a small degree of enlightenment to begin with so as to get a grasp on the benefits on offer. Once the understanding is sinking in, the snowballing will take off in earnest ! The snowflakes will simply thaw away & flush the system. Better times will be guaranteed.

Ok Indy, this national service idea, give us some facts, who, when, where, how many, how long, doing what exactly, run by who, how much is the cost.

You are the first to criticise The Greens for un-costed pie in the sky ideas. I'll go along with your NS when you explain it in some detail. People who are most in favour of Military National Service are the old ducks 60+, the ones least likely to be conscripted are the old ducks 60+.

The cost of your scheme, given the cost of keeping prisoners in jail, and soldiers in the army is $60-80k p.a. per individual.

Those on the aged pension, fit to work, should be required to do 16 hours a week national service to earn their keep. I think you would fit that mould. I can't see why many aged pensioners can't walk around the streets etc with sack in hand, with one of those grabby things picking up rubbish. Brilliant idea, don't you agree?

Paul1405,
I will provide my idea of how a NS should be implemented. Meanwhile, I'd like to ask you to make an effort not to be such a dill.

Indi and O sung wu,
Tonight on TV one will see an example of what self discipline can achieve. A young lady named Ash Barty will contest the final of the French tennis open, the first Aussie to do so since 1975. Certainly,she is gifted but did not reach that standard without the self discipline of countless hours of practice in honing her skills. You can bet she never slept late on Sunday after a night clubbing and drug taking.

If national service can instill some measure of self discipline in our young, then I support it in whatever form and tonight I will watch this young lady. Win or lose we are proud to call her one of our own. Her future is now assured and good luck to her. she could easily become number one.

Few of us will become champions or as successful as Ash Barty but to achieve in life self discipline is the first requirement.

Someone recently mentioned pensioners eating dog food, can't find the relative post so this is as good as anywhere else to reveal my in-depth research into the matter.

Coles, Inverell.

Campbell's Chunky Beef (tinned) 35 cents/ 100 grams.

VIP Cat food (tinned) 38/100

My Dog (tinned) 55/100

Natures dog (tinned) 40/100

On dry food, Coles Museli came out much cheaper than dry dog food.

So let us lay the myth to rest, although "Specials" may make a difference