This such a childish thread. When I was about seven, I asked my mum if there was a god. Being a communist, she just said, "No." So I spent my primary school years, and if I'm honest my secondary years too, nutting out that this or that story in the Bible couldn't be true, they were impossible, ridiculous. Until I realised that of course they weren't even meant to be true, they were all allegories and parables and cautionary tales, and that they didn't even matter, not so much as the underlying principles of belief, worship, obedience, wonder, bla bla, etc. THAT was what needed to be argued for and against.

And that applies to all religions: belief without evidence, or a more rational, scientific approach. Out of that internal discussion comes one's personal notions of right and wrong, good and bad, how societies are or should be organised, what the future holds (i.e. eventual death) and how to face the inevitable.

So get over the silly stories, move onto the more fundamental beliefs in every religion. Probably not even that many Christians believe the stories, they've got more sense.

Joe

psst... is anyone gunna tell Opinionated2 that there never was Moses?

and that the majority of the people he is deriding for their beliefs in a Moses don't hold such beliefs?

It is possible to believe both that the Bible is God's word but that it isn't to be taken literally.

It is possible for example, to believe that God inspired those 6th century BC authors to write about Noah's flood without actually believing that a Noah/Gilgamesh existed. It is possible to see the flood as a story to illustrate the power of God to reek terrible havoc as punishment for terrible sins. A simple story to teach simple folk of the power of the divine while being a complex stroy to induce more sophisticate folk to ponder their existence and place in the scheme of things vis-a-vis the divine. Of coarse, 21st century western intellectuals are way too sophisticated to fall for the idea that the planet can be destroyed as punishment for our sins....

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2004/feb/22/usnews.theobserver

If the Bible was written by divine inspired authors, God had a massive audience. His Bible had to interest and inform peoples across several millennia, across several continents and innumerable cultures.

Reading such a thing literally is bonkers yet seems to be the favourite pastime for those atheists who fancy themselves so much more intelligent than those whose beliefs that don't have the wherewithal to really understand.

Psst...Maze...You have missed the whole point of this discussion... Come back when you are awake...lmao I am quoting the Bible and in it Moses did exist...

Josephus...I haven't taken anything out of context as I quote exact Chapter and verse every time. That is the lie that all believers use when they know nothing.

All that supposed Bible study and nothing to show for it...lmao

And I call BS here Josephus...you claim that you... "have read every verse in the various translations of the Bible over 40 times in my 77 years".

How many translations of the Bible are there Josephus...Come on fess up that is BS! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations

So you have read...EVERY verse...in EVERY translation... OVER 40 times? Utter BS!

Your Bible scholarship was clouded by one thing..."belief" - So don't start claiming what is not true...Even if you did read them that many times...you obviously didn't understand them..lol

So whether Moses existed or didn't we are discussing the Bible and in that he did exist... and he was a war criminal, and a psychopath and a horrid, horrid man...

As I have stated he said "The Lord Said"in front of everything so the Josephus' of this world would not think through what he was reading...

Modern scholarship believes their were 4 different writers of the first 5 books of the Bible... not just one... So why isn't that being taught in Churches?

So let us look at the crimes and lies of the major characters in the Bible.

I'll continue with Moses.

MASS MURDER, WAR CRIMES, INFANTICIDE, AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE! - Numbers 31:7-18 https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/num/31/7/s_148007

Some of the key verses for your enlightenment...

Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore KILL EVERY MALE AMONGST THE LITTLE ONES, and KILL EVERY WOMAN THAT HATH KNOWN A MAN BY LYING WITH HIM.

But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

So after winning the battle... Moses ordered his army to KILL EVERY INNOCENT BABY and CHILD! But to keep the female children for themselves...

Why aren't these obscenities never taught in churches?

I'll bet this idiot won't be 'analysing' the Koran in the same way he is the Bible.

Hi Ttbn,

Just wait until he gets onto Kings. All that "The people of XX, they slaughtered every man, woman and child, and yea, also all their beasts; and hanged the king from a tree" stuff.

Move on, Op2. Try to get to the guts of it all. Plenty to criticise there.

Joe

Poor ttbn... same objection every time... Sorry but I studied the Bible... It's difficult to analyse a book I haven't read...

I'm doing just fine Loudmouth...I'll cover everything over time...

It is interesting how believers accept that all these innocent babies and children were killed as ordered by their God without even blinking...

So does indoctrination and religion make people heartless and uncaring even towards babnies and children?

You do realise that most people who believe won't even know all these verses exist...They are too busy to read God's supposed word but they love him...

Josephus, sorry to interrupt your reading of every English Bible over and over but do you claim that the Bible is God's inerrant word?

Do you really believe GOD condoned of and sometimes committed infanticide, rape, murder, animal and human sacrifice, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, torture, incest, Mosaic Law - (Sharia), stoning, slavery oppression of women and other atrocities?

Every version of the Bible says GOD did!

Really? Do these lies against GOD really represent your beliefs about GOD?

Deuteronomy 3:5-7

All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.

And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN, of EVERY CITY.

But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves.

And all under the orders of your GOD people...

I don't believe these crimes were ordained by God... but you must because you guys believe Moses the war criminal!

You guys believe the Bible...lmao