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The Forum > General Discussion > What's the difference between beating your Islamic wife and boxing, or BDSM, for that matter?

What's the difference between beating your Islamic wife and boxing, or BDSM, for that matter?

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I always get edgy where a woman's agency is diminished. Feminists for example do a lot of that, with the object of controlling what women think and do. They represent the 'feeble-minded, incompetent women who cannot make up their own mind and would most likely get it wrong if they were allowed to do so'.

This writer displays a talent for humorously unpacking the B.S. that women lack the agency to take care of themselves.

http://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/the-most-dangerous-idea-in-the-world-women-have-agency/

I am not dismissing the myriad of influences on agency and the socio-economic limitations especially, but the adage, 'If it is going to be, it has got to be me', applies equally to women.

Muslim women in the West have no excuses and the ball is at their toe. Especially where their girl children are concerned and to whom they really shouldn't be modelling that 'beating is glorious' bull.
Posted by leoj, Thursday, 13 April 2017 9:46:50 PM
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Moving on to Anna and Christians meet horrendous. Honestly that book owes me therapy money and I'm not kidding.

Anna and Christian meet just as Anna is finishing college. This already shy, self-conscious girl is about to enter an especially turbulent and uncertain transition in her life. In fact one could argue that for some college graduation is where adulthood truly begins.
Christians incredible wealth doesn't just buy Anna shiny junk it potentially buys her freedom from that transition, from that turbulence... can't find a job... I'll buy a company and make you boss... old car, here's a new one... speeding ticket... you would never speed, the officer who wrote it now says so, cross his heart and hope to die.

Now to the red-room. Hang-on... sorry tasted vomit for a minute. Their relationship and the abuse of their relationship. Lets start with the contract... consent especially within BDSM relationships (I don't practice but I know people who do) but in all relationships (healthy relationships) consent is not a constant. It isn't something that has concrete policies and procedures and two static states. It's complicated and messy and we build an understanding of it through research, relationships and community. We build it over years. Anna has little understanding of the roles consent and trust play with healthy relationships.
Posted by Zeil, Thursday, 13 April 2017 9:51:20 PM
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I raised this issue because it touches on so many things. If you believe in freedom of religion, then surely something which someone conscientiously believes, and which is not physically harmful, has a right to be practiced and should be tolerated.

While I don't have a lot of time for Islam, I find a lot of the criticism of this video to be manufactured. Often it comes from the same people who would defend a parent's right to hit a child. Or if two blokes came to blows in a pub would reckon it was just male bonding. If the women weren't Islamic, I don't think they would be getting this attention.

They're not advocating unrestrained assault. They are saying that there are rules, and they are laying them out.

We actually have court cases where spanking a child has been ruled to have crossed the boundary into being criminal assault, or violence on the football field. It would be interesting to see how a court treated it if a woman who had been beaten by her husband in line with this video suddenly decided she'd changed her mind, and went to the police. Would the judge take cultural factors into account? (He would if the people involved were aboriginal, in fact we actually incorporate spearings as punishment into law at some levels).

I personally think these women are silly, that no harm is done by the video, and that we all ought to stop hyperventilating about it. We are animals, and physical confrontation is actually part of how we are made to operate.

There's a continuum from real violence and threat to life to play, and these women are probably somewhere in the middle. Don't forget that some feminists, such as Andrea Dworkin, think that sexual intercourse is assault, and at one very trivial level, they're right. But it's a lot of fun and should never be made illegal.
Posted by GrahamY, Thursday, 13 April 2017 10:00:52 PM
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As people raised in restrictive homes often do. Anna doesn't date, or have frank conversations about sexual relationships with her one friend... nor does she feel particularly comfortable independently researching sex and the only person who's pushing her to do any of those things is a man who has a vested interest in her learning and believing very specific things about how relationships of a specific ilk function. A key one being that Anna signing some stupid contract can actually grant him constant consent to do per-agreed things to her with impunity.
If I go on I'll vomit, so lets move on to Anna's other relationships, of which there are not many. Any significant man in her life is either emotionally distant or attempts to carry out his own brand of sexual assault upon her and all of the women in her life share a general neglectful disinterest in Anna's comings and goings and all judge Christian a charming catch within 10 seconds of meeting him. Sigh.
So to sum up, Anna doesn't think she has much worth as a person, a view that is reinforced constantly by every man and woman in her life, save that one super hot, super rich guy who would like her to believe she isn't anything without him. And oh so painful... he isn't exactly wrong is he? Besides he wants her consent, he doesn't want to do anything until she signs the contract giving her absolute consent...
Posted by Zeil, Thursday, 13 April 2017 10:14:30 PM
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50 Shades of Grey:

When it happens in a mansion, it's a romance.

When it happens in a shack, it's an episode of Criminal Minds.

Burning books is wrong and evil. We should burn E. L. James (not his real name) to set an example for others.

Who the hell is reading this shite anyway? Don't they know that there are well-written books for the reading? Available for FREE at their local library?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 13 April 2017 10:20:51 PM
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Here's the thing, I argue Anna isn't capable of giving consent anymore than those Islamic woman are. As a society we agree that certain conditions must be met before a person can given consent. Depending on the situation and what the person is consenting to they have to be mentally stable, free of economic, physical of emotional coercion, they have to have a reasonable understanding of what it is they're consenting to, etc...
Islamic woman come from households where their mothers are abused by their fathers, the concept of men abusing woman with impunity is instilled from birth. It is shamefully to the woman that she has behaved in such a way that her husband needs to abuse her in order to correct that behavior. Their friends fathers abuse their mothers and when they marry their friends husbands will abuse their friends. It is not just thoroughly normalized in those woman's minds but it is normal within that culture. Moreover some of these woman are dependent upon their husbands for everything. Not just financially. Some Islamic men exert such complete control over their wives that they struggle to take any independent action even in something as simple as choosing what clothes to wear.
That in mind you really expect these women, these profoundly abused women to have the strength and tools (emotional, social, psychological) necessary to turn their backs on their family, their culture, their religion and possibly their children too? For another body of people whom are often no less hostile towards them than their own husbands and fathers and brothers? When they don't jump at the sparkling opportunity your going to tell them they deserve to beaten, just like their husbands?
I argue these woman don't have the ability to consent for a multitude of reasons, like Anna. They are disadvantaged across the board.
But mostly you know why these woman can't say yes really... because to choose to say yes you must be able to say no and I doubt any of these woman are afforded the option of telling their husband not to abuse them.
Posted by Zeil, Thursday, 13 April 2017 10:41:39 PM
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