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The Forum > General Discussion > What's the difference between beating your Islamic wife and boxing, or BDSM, for that matter?

What's the difference between beating your Islamic wife and boxing, or BDSM, for that matter?

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Dear Foxy,

I think you’ll really enjoy the book. It was massively eye-opening for me.

The discussion about Islam has been polarised and dominated by people who, on the one side, are only interested in demonisation; and those on the other side, who are all too quick to shout down any attempt to discuss the issues productively, no matter how sincere.

What the dialogue between Harris and Nawaz attempts to do is take back the discussion and set a course for the centre to start tackling the issues, or at least get a dialogue started that isn’t dominated, or stigmatised, by those on the extreme ends of the political spectrum.

Harris and Nawaz appeared on Lateline together shortly after the book’s release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7u_n5MpuNg

--

leoj,

It’s interesting that you say “stood for”, as if it were past tense. Both Harris and Nawaz still consider themselves to be Lefties (as does Dawkins, for that matter). They simply attack the more extreme elements of it, partly because they care about Left-Liberal values. The far-Right are just as bad in their own ways (probably worse, actually), and still receive plenty of criticism from the likes of Harris, et al.
Posted by AJ Philips, Saturday, 29 April 2017 3:31:53 PM
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Dear Jayb,

Actually, it's not strange at all. I leave the
readings of the holy books to the scholars
and theologians. They are the ones more qualified
I feel, to understand their topics better than I
ever could. I feel that they are the experts who
can present things in their historical context
(amidst the social, political and religious
agitations of the time). They are capable of removing
elements of mythology and provide us with a more
accurate interpretation. Which I do end up reading.
You may find that as strange.
For me that's normal. I am still on my own road to
discovery. Which I hope will continue for many years
to come.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 29 April 2017 3:56:20 PM
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Dear AJ,

I'm sure that I'll enjoy the book.

Humans are the most extraordinary creatures, and a
big part of me still wants to reach an even greater
understanding about who we are.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 29 April 2017 3:59:44 PM
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.

Dear Foxy,

.

Thanks for the link to the “Best Answer” to the question “How can Islam be reformed?” on the Quora web site, by Mike Muluk, ex-Muslim, now Christian.

I liken his conclusion “… once they have the courage to strip-off Islam from all its worldliness, and view the religion as a tool to know God and not as a law to govern their interactions with others …” to:

“Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's” (Matthew 22:21).

From what I can gather, Islamic reform began to take shape in the late 19th century with the birth of the Islamic Modernism movement founded by Al-Afghani with one of his students Mohammed Abduh and an associate, Rashid Rida.

Rida was a highly controversial figure, advocating the free interpretation of scripture by all Muslims themselves while, at the same time, advocating the creation of an Islamic State practicing Sharia law continually reassessed according to changing conditions of different generations and societies.

He popularized the term “Salafi” to describe this form of Islamic Modernism, but the term was later hi-jacked by al-Albani to describe the exact opposite: a rigid form of Islamic fundamentalism.

Al-Afghani and his student, Mohammed Abduh, began publishing an Arabic newspaper in Paris entitled "The Indissoluble Link" (sometimes translated as "The Strongest Bond") in 1884.

Muhammad Abduh argued that Muslims could not simply rely on the interpretations of texts provided by medieval clerics, they needed to use reason to keep up with changing times. He said that in Islam man was not created to be led by a bridle, man was given intelligence so that he could be guided by knowledge. According to Abduh, a teacher’s role was to direct men towards study. He believed that Islam encouraged men to detach from the world of their ancestors and that Islam reproved the slavish imitation of tradition. He said that the two greatest possessions relating to religion that man was graced with were independence of will and independence of thought and opinion …

.

(Continued …)

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Sunday, 30 April 2017 6:35:16 AM
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.

(Continued …)

.

It was with the help of these tools that he could attain happiness. He believed that the growth of western civilization in Europe was based on these two principles. He thought that Europeans were roused to act after a large number of them were able to exercise their choice and to seek out facts with their minds. His Muslim opponents refer to him as an infidel; however, his followers called him a sage, a reviver of religion and a reforming leader. Abduh did not advocate returning to the early stages of Islam. He was against polygamy and thought that it was an archaic custom. He believed in a form of Islam that would liberate men from enslavement, provide equal rights for all human beings, abolish the religious scholar’s monopoly on exegesis and abolish racial discrimination and religious compulsion.

He made great efforts to preach harmony between Sunnis and Shias and encouraged unity with all religious traditions. He declared:

« I hope to see the two great religions, Islam and Christianity hand-in-hand, embracing each other. Then the Torah and the Bible and the Qur'an will become books supporting one another being read everywhere, and respected by every nation »

He added that he was :

« looking forward to seeing Muslims read the Torah and the Bible »

The Modernists wanted to reconcile Islamic traditions with the rapid pace of the modernizing world. Al-Afghani proposed a new form of ijtihad (effort of interpretation that Muslim jurists undertake to interpret the founding texts of Islam) . He believed that the concept of ijtihad could be transformed and extended to enable all Muslims (not just the jurists) to think critically and apply their own individual interpretations of the innovations of modernity in the context of Islam. This new form of ijtihad would allow Muslims to combine their religious perspectives with that of their academic or scientific thoughts.

Contemporary Salafis (the usurpers of Al-Afghani’s term) are, of course, major proponents of all forms of ijtihad.

More recently, the Muslim Reform Movement was created. Here is their proclamation :

http://muslimreformmovement.org/MRMDeclaration.pdf

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Sunday, 30 April 2017 6:41:26 AM
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.

Oops ! I meant to write :

Contemporary Salafis (the usurpers of Al-Afghani’s term) are, of course, major proponents of the old form of ijtihad.

Sorry about that.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Sunday, 30 April 2017 6:55:36 AM
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