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The Forum > General Discussion > What's the difference between beating your Islamic wife and boxing, or BDSM, for that matter?

What's the difference between beating your Islamic wife and boxing, or BDSM, for that matter?

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The women's branch of Hizb ut-Tahrir has made a video demonstrating how a husband is allowed to hit his wife. There has been general outrage. Now while I'm a critic of Islam, I'm finding it hard to get caught up in the outrage.

If a woman wants to voluntarily submit to such a regime, for me, that is her problem. Just as many non-muslim couples voluntarily submit to violent practices within their own marriage.

To say that it is assault is to beg the question. We have lots of assault in our society which is celebrated. This weekend there will be hundreds of football matches where people will be thrown to the ground, some of them seriously injured, and others will be intimidated and menaced, simply because they are carrying an oval ball, or might be.

And in Queensland we have the state government subsidising a world title boxing match which will involve two healthy males trying to knock the other senseless.

The level of violence advocated in the Hizb ut-Tahrir video is trivial compared to all of this, or probably much of what happens in 50 Shades of Grey.

What makes our sporting and sexual assaults acceptable is that the parties voluntarily submit to it. That would appear to be the case in Islam (ironically perhaps translated as "submission") as well. So why differentiate?

If Australians are really serious about this violence, then they need to persuade these women that they shouldn't submit. Simple outrage is unlikely to do that. An intelligent attempt to convert people from Islam to something else, might.
Posted by GrahamY, Thursday, 13 April 2017 10:13:16 AM
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Hello Graham,

You ask, "What's the difference between beating your
Islamic wife and boxing?"

One would assume that either in sports such as football,
where clashes occur or in boxing where people slug it out,
they do so voluntarily. The difference with wife-beating
one would assume is not done with the wife's permission.
And in this country it's against the law and is considered
as "domestic violence."

We also cannot assume that all Muslim men beat their wives.
I can't imagine that a modern Muslim like Waleed Aly would
do it, or that his educated Muslim wife would stand for it
and allow it to happen.

Finally, for those vulnerable women that do have to bear
the brunt of their males beating them - the key may lie
in getting their communities and the leaders of their
communities (male and female) involved and educating them
so that they all understand their rights in this country.

The following link explains the action taken in Melbourne:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-16/women-muslim-leaders-given-crash-course-in-legal-studies/8030398

A small group of Muslim women have been given a crash legal
course on family violence, family law, the courts, dealing
with police in the hope they will help their Melbourne
communities better understand their rights. A three month program,
overseen by the Women's Legal Service Victoria, gave the
women information on identifying legal issues and accessing
relevant services for help.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 April 2017 11:26:21 AM
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Dear GrahamY,

Great topic, hopefully one that can be explored with a degree of civility.

This has been a issue dear to my heart. My sister-in-law's christian fundamentalist ex husband began 'disciplining' her on her wedding night. After 3 months of marriage she raised the matter with her church. To her deep concern the meeting was conducted between three male elders of the church and her and her husband. She felt unable to fully articulate what he was doing to her much less reveal the deep bruising on her legs. After some so called wise words from the elders on how to make a marriage succeed she returned to a life of abuse. Imbued with notions of control, legitimised possessiveness, and a perceived right to physically resolve differences her husband later stabbed her multiple times.

After he was convicted I went to see the pastor of the church and delivered a piece of my mind. All I got was some platitudes about the husband being the head of the household but needing to exercise that role with restraint, but absolutely no indication that the practices of the church would change.

Later discussions with others revealed a support for versions of the Christian Domestic Discipline (CCD) movement within many fundamentalist groups within the area.
http://www.christiandomesticdiscipline.com/home.html

This too is worth a read as the author addresses many of the arguments against physical disciplining of wives.
http://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/

I felt this quote is pretty indicative of the mindset;

“If your wife is un-submissive in the sexual arena and chronically denies your sexual advances (without legitimate medical or psychological reasons for doing so) then perhaps that upcoming trip you were going to take her on gets canceled.”

Besides the creepy vibe it is the ambiguous language around an appropriate response that is the most worrying. Does continual refusal permit more physical punishment? How then is that not sexual assault?

Looking forward to seeing what others think.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 13 April 2017 11:38:31 AM
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Sorry, meant to include a link. I think if you look at the video Foxy you'll see that it is consensual http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/04/13/07/49/its-never-okay-to-hit-your-wife-ben-fordham-calls-out-islamic-group.
Posted by GrahamY, Thursday, 13 April 2017 11:57:00 AM
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Which wife, they are allowed to have more than 1 too bad the Australian taxpayer has to support them all.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 13 April 2017 11:59:14 AM
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Dear Steele,

I'm so sorry to read about your relative's behaviour.
And it is frightening that in this day and age
this behaviour still exists. Some people are beyond
help.

Dear Graham,

Education is the key to these women. They obviously
don't know what their rights are in this country.
Their mind-sets have to be changed. Not an easy task.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 April 2017 12:09:39 PM
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