Foxy: From the article: <the Protestant Reformation tamed the Vatican in the 16th century.” You don't have to be a Protestant to argue for this sort of view; you could say, as many do, that the Reformation's real merit was that it reduced the importance of religion in general,>

It may have tamed the Vatican but it took 200 years to do it. In the meantime there was 200 years of vicious, bloody, Warfare.

Starting with Lutheranism, Unitarianism, Socinianism, Monetarism, ultramontanism, Gallicanism, Concilliarism, Baptists, Anabaptists, Waldensians, Hussite's, Lollards, Huguenot's, Wycliffe's, Calvinism, Mennonites, Amish, Episcopalians, Armenianism, Presbyterianism, Wesleyans, Millerism, Quakers, Shakers & many more, up to the 18th Century.

These Protestant Sects fought with one another as well as the Vatican for 200 years on top of the normal wars that were wages seeking Territory.

The main reason for the number of Sects was money. The Kings & Princes of the lands were living in poverty along with their Citizenry. They thought that breaking away from the Vatican would be a good way of stopping the Wealth of their lands flowing to Rome. Hence the breakup of Europe into Principalities.

I can't find my Book "The Reformation" this is from snippets I have collected over the years.

Anyway I thought we were discussing "How to beat your wife & get away with it by claiming it BDSM." ;-)

Dear Jayb.,

We're talking about whether the followers of Islam
can be persuaded to renounce wife beatings,
terrorism, and so on - in other words whether Islam
can be reformed. Arguments against all these things
are being heard around the world.

You can't just discuss Islamic wife beating on its own
without discussing the bigger picture. As Ayaan Hirsi
Ali wrote, " Islamic violence is rooted not in social,
economic, or political conditions, or even in
theological error - but rather in the foundational
texts of Islam itself. Without fundamental alterations
to some of Islam's core concepts we shall not solve the
increasingly global problems... carried out in the name
of religion."

Foxy: Without fundamental alterations to some of Islam's core concepts we shall not solve the increasingly global problems... carried out in the name of religion."

Sorry, but they just won't do it. The Controlling Imams won't allow it, backed up by the Fundamentalists. Moderate moslims are to afraid to act on their own. Any Imam attempting to modify the koran would have a Fatwah issued against him & killed of so quickly you wouldn't have time to blink.

The West didn't really change it's attitude to women until the 80's & is still going through the process & is mostly waiting for our generation to die off.

Protestants should go down on their knees and thank God for the existence of Catholics and the Papacy.

.

Dear Leoj,

.

You wrote :

« … then I must have Jewish origins. I don't … »

That’s OK, Leoj. Nobody’s perfect. And, anyway, I know how difficult it is to explain things sometimes.

It reminds me of the first time I flew into Abidjan in the Ivory Coast many years ago. I was marched back to the plane by two armed policemen because I didn’t have a visa. I didn’t know I needed one. I flew all the way back to Paris then back to Abidjan again, managing to get only about three hours sleep in three nights. A few weeks later, I flew into New York and the police officer asked me if I had a police record. Again, I replied I didn’t know I needed one. He just stared at me and waved me through. I guess he'd already heard that one before.

I flew to Luxembourg on another trip with a client. As I walked up to the police desk I realized I had forgotten my passport. When I apologised to the police officer he suddenly turned his head. I apologised again and he turned his head again. I apologised a third time and once again he turned his head. I finally understood and walked on through. But my wife had to come and rescue me from the airport police in Paris when I returned late that night. They couldn’t believe that I had made the return trip to Luxembourg without a passport and wouldn’t let me back in. Once, when I flew into Tokyo, the police took me into custody and withheld my passport. When they finally released me, they explained that the Japanese consulate in Paris had mistakenly stamped my passport with a visa for an Austrian citizen instead of an Australian citizen. I didn’t know because I couldn’t read Japanese.

You also wrote :

« I have quite reasonably requested that you examine the facts put forward by a reviewer of an author whose only claim to expertise seems to be that she is an ex-nun »

.

(Continued …)

.

Banjo Paterson, "That’s OK, Leoj. Nobody’s perfect. And, anyway, I know how difficult it is to explain things sometimes"

That and all of the rambling text to follow.

You could have simply apologised for twisting my log-in name with malice aforethought.

Fact is, you 'outed' yourself as prejudiced against Jews, while trying to poison the waters against me through ad hominem. Not a good look at all and what for? All to divert criticism away from criticism of that 'most feminist of religions'(sic), Islam?