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The Forum > General Discussion > Why do we have to keep snivelling to the US

Why do we have to keep snivelling to the US

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Crackcup wrote 28 October 2015 6:55:54 AM: '... Our Defence Minister, ... has just announced that "we will support the US unequivocally" ...'. Sorry, but I could not find a record of any Australian defence minister saying this. When and where did they say it?

Australia has not sent any surface warships to the Spratly Islands. In fact two Australian warships are currently on a goodwill mission to China.

I don't agree with your assertion that "In war nobody wins, but a lot of people die...". The citizens of nations which fail to defend their citizens adequately are at risk of direct aggression and threats of aggression.

I suggest Australia can, and should, maintain friendly relations with China, while maintaining its military alliance with the USA.

ps: Curiously, Australian technology may be used on both sides of the South China Sea dispute. Australia is a world leader in the design of high speed multi-hull ferries and these have been adapted by the USA and China for warships. The Independence Class Littoral Combat Ships of the United States Navy are derived from a trimaran ferry by West Australian company Austal. The Houbei class missile boats of the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy are based on a commercial catamaran ferry from AMD Marine Consulting Pty Ltd of Sydney.
Posted by tomw, Monday, 2 November 2015 1:58:09 PM
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Mr Opinion,

Not all people of oriental ethnicity in Chatswood are foreign. Of those who are, not all are Chinese. And of those who are Chinese, not all if them are Mainland Chinese.

China has no desire to invade Australia. The places that could be under threat of a Chinese invasion are those that China has a historical claim to (however tenuous).
Posted by Aidan, Monday, 2 November 2015 6:00:48 PM
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Dear Aidan,

If something looks like a duck, wobbles like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck.

The Chinese are an international community - diaspora - with strong ties to their ancestral homeland. This is the symbolic meaning of the Chinese New Year. It's all about being connected to one's ancestral roots.

Your argument inferring that a Chinese Australian is not Chinese makes as much sense as saying an Australian Aboriginal is not an Aboriginal.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 2 November 2015 6:39:54 PM
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Paul1405/Armchair,

Let me try and explain it to you one more time.
My starting point is that there always will be at least one superpower in existence. There always has been and always will be. A power which orders the international system to suit their world-view and to advantage their aims. Just as Rome ordered their world to suit their perceived advantage and values, the US seeks to order the world to its advantage. Every superpower in the past has done so. Its their methods that matter.

Now you might yearn for some Disneyfied world where the hegemon is so benign that it doesn't involve itself at all in the affairs of others or seek to order the global system to its advantage. But in the real world of realpolitik that's just not going to happen.

So...
given that we are always going to have some sort of global power(s) who dictate to lesser states, my view is that US is the least oppressive of the current candidates and the least oppressive of all the preceding examples.

For Australia, given that we are always going to be subordinate to whatever power is the then hegemon, we are best placed if that hegemon shares our values of liberal democracy, individual freedom, rule of law etc. And when that power is required to get down and dirty to defend the global system as in Vietnam or Korea or Europe, we need to be supporting them because that system advantages us also.

Just stamping your feet and saying the US is bad because of this or that is juvenile. Powers are bad in comparison to others. And by comparison with those others, the US is prefered.

Some people look at the Mona Lisa and see the smile. Others see the cracks in the paint.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 3 November 2015 1:48:29 PM
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Dear Mr Opinion,

Ducks are more likely to waddle than wobble.

The Scots are an international community - diaspora - with strong ties to their ancestral homeland. Many people, including myself, have Scottish ancestry and look Scottish despite not being born in Scotland.

It doesn't mean we want Scotland to control Australia!

"Your argument inferring that a Chinese Australian is not Chinese makes as much sense as saying an Australian Aboriginal is not an Aboriginal"
What about Aboriginal Australians with Chinese Ancestry (such as Cathy Freeman)? Do you deny they're Aboriginal? Do you regard them as Chinese?
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 3 November 2015 7:06:41 PM
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Dear Aidan,

I thought a waddle was a wobble. Or is that the other way around?

What is the linchpin in the Scottish diaspora? Is it the Queen? Edinburgh Castle? The Loch Ness monster?

I think Cathy Freeman would regard herself as an Aboriginal.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 4 November 2015 4:17:59 AM
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