Shadow Minister and Mhaze:

Reading your combined drivel, I find it hard to believe that this garbage is NOT coming directly from the auspices of the CIA.

Anyone with a glimmer of grey-matter would have to accept the reality that the Vietnam War was an internal Civil War ( much like your apparently "beloved American" Civil War ) and which during its few short years wiped out the cream of American youth.

When the French Foreign Legion were massacred and brought the edge of extinction at Dien Bien Phu, the French nation was smart enough to opt out and leave it to what it really was, a CIVIL WAR, and by the by, I think that most intelligent people would agree that Vietnam is now a much happier and prosperous unified nation.

I fear for the future of this world, whilst we continue to hear the propaganda being churned out by so-called "protectors of Freedom and Democracy" who sit on their thrones, plotting the next move to destabilize the world community, whilst at the same time selling their weaponry to all and any buyers, to feed the greed of the weapons manufacturers, to keep the Sheriff`s six guns swinging from the hip!

Incidentally, when you are stuck for a sensible answer, please don`t resort to belittling your adversary`s English compository skills, and it doesn`t make you appear any smarter!

Paul,

Still waiting for your version of Thatcher's "stated policy". As I said, you should stop reading Pravda for your information.

1 The last Franco Siamese treaty was in 1907 not 1938

2 France withdrew in 1954, and Vietnam was partitioned into North and South Vietnam prior to elections for the whole country scheduled in 1956 which was blocked by the Soviets not the US, with the North then beginning a guerilla insurgency followed by direct military action.

3 Saigon fell in 1975 (not 1973) after the US withdrew in 1973.

Shadow, I wrote my piece from memory, unlike you who had to rely on good old Dr Google. Yes the fall of Saigon was in 1975.

"which was blocked by the Soviets not the US," how silly of the Soviets to do that, considering Ho Chi Minh was a moral to win the up coming elections of 1956.

In 1938 the French began a policy of "Equalism" under the terms of the Franco-Siamese treaty in Indochina, as a counter to Japanese expansionism. With the Vietnamese nationalists believing in return for their support in opposing Japanese aggression they would be promoted as political equals by the French. This was a deception on the part of the French. as demonstrated by events subsequent to 1945. The French capitulated to Japanese demands in 1940, allowing Japan to station troops in French Indochina to protect Japanese assets, with the French actively assisting the Japanese to imprison Vietnamese dissidents. Again with French assistance Japan was able to establish a puppet state under Bao Dai in Vietnam, which lasted until 1945, when the France tried to reestablish colonial rule.

Like many, you most likely seen Ho Chi Minh as a communists. In fact Ho was first and foremost a nationalists, wanting to established a free self-governing Vietnam within well defined boarders. At best Ho was a reluctant communists, believing a 'socialists collective' was the best way forward for his impoverished country. The Western powers failed to understand Vietnam and its nationalists leadership, and both sides paid an unreasonable price for that lack of understanding.

Shadow, regardless of all the historical dates and facts, one thing is for certain, it would not have taken a great deal of effort by all involved to have avoided the Vietnam War, an extremely costly war for all concerned. At least 1,500,000 people, mostly Vietnamese, died as a direct result of the war.
I had hoped that Vietnam would have taught America a valuable lesson. unfortunately it did not, the US continues to this day to conduct an aggressive foreign policy towards others. At the moment America is demonstrating a belligerent attitude towards their perceived (economic) enemies China and Russia, which is not helpful in bring peace to a much troubled world, just the opposite. Unfortunately the military-industrial complex in the United States is too powerful, and any winding back of US militarism would be economically disastrous for the US conglomerates that feed off that militarism, and they know it!

Paul/Crackcup

"Give us some examples of the US delivering all this freedom and democracy stuff. "

Let's see. Western Europe after WWII, Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union, Japan, Sth Korea, Israel, S-E Asia. All exist as democracies under the US military umbrella.

Paul asked...""The US has been called upon three times in the past century to save the world from tyrannous regimes," can you point us in the direction of these 3 times.""

Against the Second Reich, the Axis and the Soviet Union.

"I find it hard to believe that this garbage is NOT coming directly from the auspices of the CIA."

Into conspiracy theories Crackcup?

Crackcup, interesting that you'd raise the American Civil War AND presume to know what I think about it (" "beloved American" Civil War"; seriously?). There is a subset of the reflex anti-US brigade who simply spew forth anything they can come up with that they hope puts the US in a bad light, irrespective of its relevance. Crackcup is smack in the middle of those 'thinkers'.

While your with us Crackcup...a while back you asserted "Tony Blair admitted publicly that the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" was a LIE!." When I called you out on that little fantasy and asked for your evidence, you scurried away with nary an attempt to justify your hyperbole. I'm just wondering if you'd like to own up now.

"At the moment America is demonstrating a belligerent attitude towards their perceived (economic) enemies China and Russia, which is not helpful in bring peace to a much troubled world, just the opposite."

Wow, just wow.

In flagrant contravention of the 1994 LAw of the Sea treaty that China signed, China is claiming through military force islands that are, at the very very least, disputable. Equally, in contravention of all history, China is claiming the Senkaku Islands, and the Ryukyu chain.

Meanwhile the new Tsar of Russia has invaded and occupied the Crimea, instigated warfare against the Ukraine and supplied those who shot down a civilian plane, containing, among other, many innocent Australian citizens.

Yet in the fantasy its-all-uncle-Sam's-fault world inhabited by Paul, the US is being belligerent toward these peace-loving nations.

Wow, just wow.