Dear Jayb,

Thanks for that.

I've got to admit that I found the article that
I found on the web and cited in my earlier post
very disturbing to say the least. If anyone has
any other evidence - to the contrary - please
present it here. I for one would appreciate
reading it.

Jayb: Unfortunately for them one of the old Foreman had News paper releases from 1945 & subsequent years the starting date was released, again & again.

That old Forman brought a house at Oonoonba, a new Townsville suburb in 1945, when he got married. Oonoonba is in walking distance from Stuart. On the day he retired they turned the first sod on the Stuart Workshop site. It was a big day for the Poli's. Needless to say he was not impressed.

The old Northside Workshop site is where they are going to put the New Townsville Football Stadium.

One can just bet that when they eventually build the new Toowoomba Range By-pass in a hundred years time that some Poli will claim that as their Idea. Grrrr.

It seems that many of our politicians are digging a hole for us, Abbott, Bishop, aven Bill Shoreten, by taking a stance against Indonesia for their planned executions.

Taking the emotion of out the situation, our leaders are openly trying to shame indo into going soft on their drug laws, which in turn is placing unwanted, even unwarranted strain on our relations, all for two drug smugglers who knew the consequences if they got caught.

Far too much paid for too little gain in my view.

If there is one lesson in all this for indo, it's that should this happen again, and some dick wads get busted smuggling drugs there, that the indo government should notify the press, and the country of origin of the offenders that they have been executed and the bodies are ready to be collected.

Laws are laws and just because we have politicly correct limp wristed leaders and law enforcers here, doesn't give us the right to preach to others on their law enforcement policies.

Perhaps it's time we re evaluated our policy on executions for the likes of cold blooded murderers,terrorists, sex offenders and rock spiders. I may be entering my senior years, but I'm still a pretty good shot and would be willing to pull the trigger

The point is we can't keep doing things knowing the laws, then cry fowl when caught. It's the reason life in prison here has so many meanings.

rehctub,

Exactly. Could there be a more obvious example of Australia interfering in the domestic affairs of a developing country?

We the taxpayers will pay a heavy price to make amends for Indonesian loss of face. The politicians chase populism, hamsters on the 24 hr news wheel, and our children and grandchildren will suffer the loss of the prime agricultural land and other rights that will be offered to recompense.

It will have spill-over effects for dealing with economic migrants and other serious matters where goodwill with Indonesia and other countries in the region is a prime concern.

Dear rehctub,

I'm not sure about your premise - to
not interfering in the matters of the affairs
of other countries.

We get involved in the affairs of other
countries in all sorts of ways - from foreign
aid, military action, wars, to
providing assistance as required. Cooperation
with our neighbours in all sorts of ways
has always been government policy and provides
stability in the region.

Providing protection and aid to our citizens-
and in this case - asking for clemency
is afterall what our citizens and their families
expect their
governments to do on their behalf.

I am not sure where International Law stands in
these matters - or for that matter human rights
laws - but I do think that the men are entitled
to attempts being made by their government to
seek clemency on their behalf.

I'm also not sure about Indonesia's motives here.
The death penalty has not been a deterrent to
drug smugglers. This may be simply a political
decision by the President of Indonesia to appear
to be strong. Also, the Indonesian lawyers for
the two men have stated that the judges have inferred
that if money was offered to them - the sentence
would be more lenient - apparently no money has
been offered thus far.

We've also been told that there are
also moves by the new President of Indonesia
to stamp out corruption in high places - which
confirms what the lawyers of the two men are saying
about the judges' requests for payment.

Foxy: Providing protection and aid to our citizens.

That is exactly what their deaths is providing. Deterring others for trying it on. The will, of course, be others that will try it on, get caught & suffer the same fate. I just feel sorry for all the people that have lost loved ones because of these people.

Foxy: but I do think that the men are entitled to attempts being made by their government to seek clemency on their behalf.

But that's all they can do. Our Government can't interfere with their Laws. What if some Saudi comes here & threatens to kill a woman because she is driving a car on her own. Should the Saudi Government interfere with our Judicial System. Should they demand that their citizen not be charged? I think not. How say you?

Foxy: Also, the Indonesian lawyers for the two men have stated that the judges have inferred that if money was offered to them - the sentence would be more lenient.

Oh I don't doubt that for one minute. You have to understand how Society works in 3rd. World Countries. Offering Gifts (We'd call them bribes) is the normal way of conducting business. Nothing unusual here.

In Australia we have the same system only we call it, "Donations for services rendered." Nothing unusual about that.

Foxy: there are also moves by the new President of Indonesia to stamp out corruption in high places.

That only means that he will get in on the act. That's all. He is just wanting his share of the "Gifts."