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The Forum > General Discussion > Is there any hope that a Christian & secular based society, can peacefully co-exist with Islam?

Is there any hope that a Christian & secular based society, can peacefully co-exist with Islam?

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O Sung Wu,
The idea that medieval Spain was tolerant and "multicultural" is wrong, it's based mainly on rhetoric from Jewish-German historians who lived much later and the stories of "convivienca" are coloured with contemporary, or at least post Auschwitz ideas of Jewish identity.
Why Cordoba? by Mark Tracy
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/42700/why-cordoba
You have to understand that when we're talking about history as a discipline the ideas of a tiny number of people hold sway and that the interpretation of history is always extremely subjective.
This is especially important to understand when you're dealing with anything relating to Jews and Judaism, all other historians (and more importantly the mainstream media) defer to the point of view expressed by their Jewish colleagues so we end up with one or two Jewish academics dominating the entire field.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 12 November 2014 9:32:45 PM
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Thank you, Jay, for the link to the interview with Sufi Sheikh Imran Hosein,

It is long and I'm yet to find the time to watch it all, but the beginning is promising, indicating that the Sheikh is a wise person, worth listening to. Here is an excerpt from the beginning of the interview:

"Which is why if you look at the television screen today, and I don't have a television in my home, Morris. If you look at the television screen you see that the images keep on changing rapidly, rapdily, the rapid movement of images on a television screen is in order to be able to block the mind from being able to cocentrate and from being able to penetrate into reality, so that you remain someone who is imprisoned in superficiality, in the fleeting moment. That's all you do. you are living and you are in prison in the fleeting moment."

So O Sung Wu, you asked:

<<It would seem the younger, more angry second generation Muslims, they seem to resist any attempt to dissuade them from living in this isolationist environment, notwithstanding they're born here ? Why, what have we done that they would seek to turn on us, so malevolently, and so venomously?"

Perhaps it's not what we done, but what we failed to do: for the most part we provide no positive alternative, only superficiality. Young people are thirsty for something deeper which can provide them with a sense of direction and purpose - if we don't provide it, then they look for it in ISIL (and when they discover their lies, it's already too late).
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 13 November 2014 7:56:54 AM
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Jay,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain_1.shtml

Read under "Golden Age" heading. Some historians believe it was false and that Jews and Christians were treated as second class citizens. Reference - Bernard Lewis "The Jews of Islam". Muslims held contempt for Jews and Christians and worse for atheists.
Posted by Constance, Thursday, 13 November 2014 8:09:36 AM
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http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2012/10/02/what-george-orwell-would-think-about-the-liberal-appeasement-of-islam/

"When George Orwell was struggling to find a publisher for Animal Farm, he was repeatedly turned down on the grounds that the book would offend the Soviet Union."

Liberal appeasement of Communism then, and what now? Sounds familiar. History repeating itself again and again.
Posted by Constance, Thursday, 13 November 2014 8:41:30 AM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

Peter Costello pointed out in his book,
"The Costello Memoirs,"

"Australia is often described as a successful
multicultural society. And it is, in the sense
that people from all different backgrounds live
together in harmony. But there is a predominant
culture just as there is a predominant language.
And the political and cultural institutions that
govern Australia are absolutely crtical to that
attitude of harmony and tolerance."

"Within an institutional framework that preserves
tolerance and protects order we can celebrate and
enjoy diversity in food, in music, in religion,
in language and culture. But we could not do that
without the framework with guarantees the freedom
to enjoy diversity."

The point being made is that "unless we have a consensus
of support about how we will form our legislatures and
an agreement to abide by its laws, none of us will be able
to enjoy our rights and liberties without being
threatened by others. We have a compact to live under a
democratic legislature and obey the laws it makes. In
doing this the rights and liberties of all are protected."

Costello tells us that "Terrorists and those who
support them do not acknowledge the rights and liberties
of others - ... and as such they
forfeit the right to join in Australian citizenship."

"There is one law we are all expected to abide by - its
the law enacted by Parliament under the Australian Constitution.
If someone cannot accept that then they don't accept
the fundamentals of what Australia is and what it stands for,
Our State is a secular State. As such it can protect the
freedom of all religions for worship. There is not a separate
stream derived from religious sources that competes with
or supplants Australian law in governing our civil society.
The source of our law is the democratically elected
legislature."

We need to be very clear about this. We need to ask all
of our citizens to subscribe to a framework that can
protect the rights and liberties of all. And we should
expect all Australians to subscribe to them.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 November 2014 9:21:03 AM
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o sung wu,

Algerian president Houari Boumedienne "One day millions of men will leave Arabia to go to Europe. And they will not go there as friends. They will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."

former President H B 1932--1978

I believe the Algerian president was correct and the event is now happening.

Hence my belief that Muslims see themselves as pioneers for Islam when they immigrate to western countries. They will eventually take over by force of numbers.

Look at the influence they have in some European countries and in the UK. Some government ministers have been muslim and some are now talking about the first muslim PM.

Australia needs to take action now to prevent similar.
Posted by Banjo, Thursday, 13 November 2014 10:57:48 AM
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