After observing the many discussions and arguments concerning the attempted Islamization of some hitherto Christian and/or secular Countries in Europe. Is there any prospect or expectation that in the medium term, they may ultimately peacefully co-exist for the benefit of all ?

And what of our own fair country ? While the overall Islamic demographic in Australia is relatively small, there's no doubt their presence does receive more than the 'lion's share' of media attention, and in general discussion ?

I don't know the answer ? However, if we can't learn to live together, to make provision for each other's traditions and belief systems, and attempt to acculturate in some measure, to each of our respective cultures, then I have great foreboding for all our futures, because nobody can win a religious war.

From what I have read o sung wu, the society in Spain, when they ran the place, was basically secular, prosperous & happy, so some brands of Muslim belief can nix with others successfully.

However we have a bunch with huge chips on their shoulders, & we have a problem. They hate us for being superior in all things, & rubbing their noses in it when ever we compete.

We are going to have to get much tougher with them, which won't help their disposition much in the short term.

We are going to have to stop them slipping off to the middle east, to bring back yet another cousin child, [or very young] bride, sticking them in a housing commission house as a single mum, & using them to out breed us.

Ultimately their women going to school will lead them to revolt I believe, even they are not dumb enough to not see how badly treated they are. Still, I don't think it will be in our lifetime, & it is probable quite a bit of blood will be spilt before any integration will occur.

I suspect that our (Australian) position on this is going to have very little positive influence on the outcome.

Change, as we know from experience in fields as far apart as alcoholism and politics, can only come from within. External influences merely exacerbate the conditions that created the problem in the first place. An alcoholic's first reaction is to dig in - I can handle it, everyone is making a fuss about nothing - while a political system, however flawed, is maintained by an adherence to the status quo by those most likely to be inconvenienced by any change. Hence all the rise of the mini-revolution - Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, the whole "Arab Spring" thing - as the only remaining means to get attention.

Whether or not they have actually generated any real change is still unclear. Perhaps the simple fact that they occurred at all (Tienanmen, anyone?) is enough to set in motion some kind of liberalization in the longer term. History will tell us.

In the meantime, there is a severe danger that whichever side we choose to support will only be disadvantaged by that support - "Great Satan" etc.

It's a dilemma, that's for sure.

the head in the sand approach is not sustainable. Many secularist are dumb enough to believe that like Christians muslims will turn the other cheek. The atrocious abc regressives will continue to mock Christ and everything decent but have no guts in publishing a cartoon regarding Mohammed. THe double standards from the media and regressives will continue until it bites them which it is bound to do.

Look at Indonesia. A country that has a majority Islam, is secular and has a significant population with other belief systems.

Too many of you think that the Saudi type of extreme Sunni Islam heavily funded world-wide for the last 30 years, without any scrutiny, from the earnings of oil is the only way Islam is practiced.

It's the most successful forcing of a particular form of religion on a world scale since the Spanish and Portuguese 'Christianized' the Americas with their brand of Catholicism still in the thrall of the inquisition and burning of witches.

We could learn a thing or two from that.

yvonne

obviously blind or ignorant of the massacre of Christians in Aceh. If Indonesia is your model Australia is in heaps of trouble.