individual,

Agree. I have had damage done to buildings through lack of care and vandalism.

A relative was telling me that some new rail carriages are already vandalised with scratched glass, torn seats and refuse shoved into tight places. They *bleep* in their own nests.

If it was up to me community service orders would be served cleaning sewers, drains and clearing shrubbery along highways under the eyes of troopers on horseback. Work that is apparently below them and too hard, but ordinary honest people do it willingly for low wages.

There are too many so-called 'do-gooders' making excuses for them and blaming the very society that keeps them and provides their shelter (which they soil, disfigure and destroy).

Foxy,
It is not easy being a parent, it never was and despite all efforts some kids still turn out losers.

Some kids get off track, but most get back on the rails again after they get a job or girlfriend and settle down. If I could find the key to fixing those who don't, I would be rich. Many good disappointed parents would pay heaps know what went wrong.

There seems to be some in each generation that lack respect for others and are always in trouble with the police for basically being stupid.

Whatever, there is still no reason for kids not to be taught the social niceities that make living bearable. Simple things like Please and thank you, not blocking the walkway and holding the door for the next person. What about a little wave when someone lets one into a line of traffic.

Sadly, there is little hope for the girls this thread is about.

Hi Banjo, I agree that simple good manners cost nothing and are worth much.
I don't think we should blame all parents for their adult children's actions though, because often you can bring up 2 kids in exactly the same way and one may never give you a moments trouble and the other may be a criminal!

I sometimes wonder if some kids are born 'bad', instead of being encouraged that way by their parents or significant others.

Those 2 girls are obviously in trouble, with such compelling video evidence, especially the one shown kicking and punching the old man.
They should be severely punished if they are found guilty in court.

Dear Banjo,

What will be important is the content of our
children's hearts and minds, or what's often
described as character. When we say, "It's
what's inside that counts," we speak a simple
but profound truth. I was raised very similar
to the way you were. Politeness and civility
were paramount and the emphasis was on lady-like
behaviour. I attended an all girls high school,
where a very strict Scottish headmistress instilled
in us the way girls should behave so that they could
grace any social gathering. Today that would probably
be considered as "quaint" by some people.

My parents instilled in me the love of books.
We all have books that lifted the fog for us, caused
the Great Aha, and literally changed our lives.
In my own case I learnt from biographies that even
great individuals start out as everyday children -
letting me know that life's possibilities are
without limit.

Then there were the role models in fairy tales and
legends and historical stories. Cinderella enchanted
not because she got the prince but because she was
cheerful and dignified even in unbearable
circumstances. King Arthur showed what a noble deed
looked like and that there is such a thing as duty and
sacrifice.

I'm sorry that you feel there's no hope for these young
girls. I'm not sure whether you're right. I would
prefer to think that given a change of atmosphere for
them, and under the right guidance of someone they
would come to respect - a change would indeed be possible.
However it would have to be someone prepared to put in
the time and effort to work with these girls to make
change a possibility. It would have to be someone who
would know how to reach out to these girls and reach
them. Someone with the experience of dealing with
difficult girls.

Foxy,
If they go to jail they'll get to know plenty of Aborigines who will be higher in the pecking order than they are, that could be the change of atmosphere they need to focus their minds.

It is inconceivable that they haven't had people reach out to them already and many times over, taking into account the long years of schooling, alone. I wonder what their teachers from Kindy up would say?

When should a 'girl' become accountable for her own decisions? Especially seeing that girls have many rights and opportunities in Australia, many free avenues for advice and many a free leg-up if they want to skill themselves or engage in useful work?

Ask business and property owners on the Gold Coast and elsewhere what they have to endure from the over-protected ferals who have every right and no responsibilities at all to speak of. At this moment there are 'housos' wrecking public and private housing and spending their guvvy hand-outs on booze, drugs and entertainment. The rental tribunals excuse damaged, dirty houses with dogs taken in and not cared for as simply 'wear and tear', and shrug their shoulders at the owner's responsibility and loss. Other responsible tenants pay higher rent as a result or the owners go bust - both happen.

Frankly, most people are fed up to the back teeth with all of the excuses for slack, drunken, violent, spiteful, unthankful creeps that we all have to pay higher taxes to keep. 'It is their parents and society's fault' and 'They haven't had the opportunity' and 'They need counselling' - that is all bollocks.