Attention has been drawn to this on another thread & I feel this warrants its own thread.
I only just saw some footage of what appears to be a white female kicking & pushing an elderly man of whom it is said was Aboriginal. There was some footage of an elderly man being led somewhere but this person looked european to me. Is there any reliable information on this incident ?
I would have thought the ABC would have gone into overdrive by now if it was a racial attack.
The footballer abuse made it big, what is it that keeps this incident so low ?

Indy I am afraid you appear to be watching the wrong channel.
The ABC has had extensive coverage and this is what has been said.
The 70 year old is partly blind a 13 year old heroic girl called for him to be left alone.
The person who pushed the things assaulting him off the bus did not get a photo taken.
Hardly, even in my young girl hunting days, call them a nice name, appearance warns me they should be avoided unless drunk.
Now faced court today and I hope, but doubt, they got three months in prison.

Rudeness and boorish behaviour are commonplace. The old gent did not claim to be indigenous.

But the truth is that the elderly get ignored, discounted, blamed and wished dead every day of the week and in droves. No respect for the elderly in Oz.

As well, the minxes abused a woman with a pram and doubtless other passengers.

Most public places there are Housos abroad acting up as attention-seeking, public nuisances with boots on the seats and scratching graffiti on transport glass for fun.

Belly,
I just saw a bit on this on the ABC but all they said was that investigations are underway as to what happened. I find it rather curious to say the least at the lack of the standard feigned indignation brigade's outrage.
There seems to be something more to this incident than is being told.
In any case if the attack was utterley unprovoked those female morons should get whipped & then made to pay. They deserve a stint in jail just for giving the rest of us a bad name.

Indi,
There's a problem here for the "indignation brigade", they have a gender biased view of violence which limits the ways in which they can react to situations such as this. The fact is that almost all these spectacular "bus rants" and assaults have been carried out by women and the minority by men and women in company.
As I said to a comrade just now, "old" and "blind" should be at the top of the list of aggravating factors and "racist" should be at the bottom, bullies always pick an obvious physical characteristic to bait their victim and create a pretext for further humiliation or violence.

Indy I think you would like useing the on line press as I do.
And its free
I have those news papers that do not demand money from readers in my favorites.
So far this morning read Goggle news.
Always free and you can, if you wish read the USA/British/NZ/and Canadian versions .

By now you will know one of the two air wasters remains without bail in prison.
If we look we can surely see the me/selfy generations drop outs seem to have no respect for any one including them selves.

Belly,
Agreed. These types need to be taught a strong lesson that they are not smart and that their conduct is simply unacceptable. I care not what their gender is, their ethnicity or citizenship. Their parents must feel ashamed to have daughters like that.

The elderly victim has said all he did was ask them to stop swearing, and you know I believe him. I probably would also have done so. That type of language may be acceptable in a construction camp, but not in a public place where ladies are present.

Their abuse and bashing is shameful conduct and I hope the courts deal with it properly.

Yet there are many who still resent National Service for the young. Talk about reaping what you sow.
A National Service would go a very long way towards knocking crap like this on the head

Dear Individual,

Just a few thoughts:

This sort of behaviour should be unacceptable to all
of us and yet it appears to be becoming more common
place in our society these days.

Violence amongst
young people is occuring more frequently and it
seems that some people have missed learning some
of the basic skills in getting along with others.

It's as if they misinterpret social situations
that are ambiguous
and they respond with aggressive behaviour.
It's almost as if they have a set of beliefs
that emphasize retaliation. Where does that come from?
Who knows what their parents are like or what sort
of families they come from. They may even have been
taught to believe that self-righteous
expression of anger is healthy.

Obviously they've never been taught to put themselves
in others shoes and haven't learned to see things from
other people's perspectives.

These people will undoubtedly blame others for their
actions and won't take responsibility for their own.
If they come from homes where people get upset daily
over many small things and have a one-response perspective
on life - that would explain their behaviour.

Spending time in jail however won't correct their thinking
but as you point out - getting an education to think
differently just might do more good - and compulsory
National Service just might be a good place to start.

If you knock the crap out of these two nothing would be left Indy.
I have observed a growing move towards this type of behavior in young women of a certain class for years

National service seems to make people worse if anything, anyone who encountered young Israelis or South Africans abroad in the old days would attest to that, there used to be signs up in a lot of B&B's and hostels in Goa and Bali "Please, no Israelis".
All of the French and Spanish guys I worked with in hospitality hated national service, one of them spent six months in jail out of his twelve month stint after his section mutinied during a forced march in sub zero conditions, most of the time he said they spent either sitting around bored or doing pointless drills with plywood mock guns.

http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/gold-coast-bus-attack-accused-larna-watmough-the-cousin-of-nrl-bad-boy-anthony-watmough/story-fnii5v6w-1226842569356

Indy this link is worth opening.
It in no way changes my view at least one of these girls dresses and acted like a word I refrain from using here maybe both fit that description.

I just watched Belly's links & all I can say is, disgusting ! I'm at a loss how that father can be so callous as to tell his pile of crap of a daughter to stay strong. He should be charged also. I hope they get at least 3 years, no parole.

Indi and Foxy,
While the idea of National Service is worth a try, it may be too late as kids need to learn dissaplin and courteous behaviour from very young.

Parents have to learn not to give in to all demands from kids and teachers need more control.

My parents taught us about being courteous to others and we had to address adults by their proper tittle. We had to walk around others on the footpath and help with chores at home. Girls were taught how to sit properly and how to be ladylike. We all learnt how to use a knife and fork properly.

We got the cane at school when we deserved it, and not game to tell dad as we may have got a bit more. Cannot see that it did us much harm except to learn we were not the only fish in the sea.

One of mums favourite saying was, 'It costs nothing to say please and thank you'. This seems sadly lacking in the young these days.

I once had a go at a high school teacher about kids behaviour and he replied. "Mate it s too late when we get them. One kid in my class turned 14 last week and his parents gave him a carton of smokes and a bottle of burbon for presents, so what hope have we got?"

Banjo,
Once National Service becomes not only accepted but also desired, perhaps the cane (just a tiny one & a little slap for dessert for starters ) may gain approval too. I'd say the toughest part would be making a start of it. Once the show is on the road there won't be any calls for stopping it. The benefit of discipline will be the impetus.

Dear Banjo,

To repeat - what I've written in the past:
Our job as parents is to raise
a decent human being. Decency might sound like a
modest ambition, but in today's culture it's not
as easy to achieve as we might think. Every
parent I know lives with the uneasy sense that
their children are growing up too fast. While we
spin our wheels worrying about our children's
education, our children may be missing the "real
basics" like respect, loyalty, and a sense of fair play.

Our children growing up are facing
tough choices and complicated situations. They need to
be surrounded by a sturdy sensibility, a world view, that
is different from the "Me" mentality of modern culture.

They have to be taught and learn the difference
between right and wrong. These are difficult times for
parents who like to control things - other solar systems
begin to have their appeal when one realises that one's
child is just as likely to find a condom as a flower at the
park. The role of a parent is certainly not easy. And
as I see it -
it is not to protect our children from the truth, but to
protect them from something less than the truth.

Here's an extract
from an anecdote told by Dr. Ginott who used to be an
Adjunct Professor at New York University many years ago:
Reading it still impacts on me today:

"On the first day of the new school year, all the
teachers in one private school received the following
note from their principal:

Dear Teacher:

I am a survivor of a concentration camp.
My eyes saw what no man should witness:

Gas chambers built by "learned" engineers.

Children poisoned by "educated" physicians.

Infants killed by "trained" nurses.

Women and babies shot and burned by "high school"
and "college" graduates."

So, I am suspicious of education.

My reuqest is: Help your students become human.
Your efforts must never produce learned monsters,
skilled psychopaths, educated Eichmanns.

Reading, writing, arithmetic are important only if
they serve to make our children more humane."

I don't know why anyone would be surprised by the reported rudeness and rough treatment of other bus travellers by those 'girls'. The Glitter Strip is infested with Sunnyvale girls (and boys). They have all but destroyed the once pleasant family and retirement beach resort and Hinterland of the Gold Coast.

Sunnyvale girls,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-4DOggRYDY

That is the culture that has taken over and it is not restricted to the 'burbs they 'own' by 'right' either, as in their gangs.

It is mildly amusing that a 'girl' who is a convicted drug smuggler of a large amount of quality hydroponic dope still benefits from the highly positive stereotyping that women have benefited form since the year dot.

On the other hand there shouldn't be an over-reaction against the two idiot 'girls', at least while ferals can escape lengthy custodial sentences for coward's punches, glassings and other vicious crimes against people. A fine and supervised community work I'd say.

They all need work to do. That is the solution. Cut the support and get them to work for their keep. That will develop a sense of pride in themselves and their environment.

onthebeach,
The one thing that gripes me the most with juvenile deliqunency is that not once are they to made to compensate for damage they caused be it malicious or theft. That is something that really needs to be discussed asap. I have had my life altered & will not recover from this financially & it hurts to no end to have a Magistrate shrug his shoulders at the question of compensation.

individual,

Agree. I have had damage done to buildings through lack of care and vandalism.

A relative was telling me that some new rail carriages are already vandalised with scratched glass, torn seats and refuse shoved into tight places. They *bleep* in their own nests.

If it was up to me community service orders would be served cleaning sewers, drains and clearing shrubbery along highways under the eyes of troopers on horseback. Work that is apparently below them and too hard, but ordinary honest people do it willingly for low wages.

There are too many so-called 'do-gooders' making excuses for them and blaming the very society that keeps them and provides their shelter (which they soil, disfigure and destroy).

Foxy,
It is not easy being a parent, it never was and despite all efforts some kids still turn out losers.

Some kids get off track, but most get back on the rails again after they get a job or girlfriend and settle down. If I could find the key to fixing those who don't, I would be rich. Many good disappointed parents would pay heaps know what went wrong.

There seems to be some in each generation that lack respect for others and are always in trouble with the police for basically being stupid.

Whatever, there is still no reason for kids not to be taught the social niceities that make living bearable. Simple things like Please and thank you, not blocking the walkway and holding the door for the next person. What about a little wave when someone lets one into a line of traffic.

Sadly, there is little hope for the girls this thread is about.

Hi Banjo, I agree that simple good manners cost nothing and are worth much.
I don't think we should blame all parents for their adult children's actions though, because often you can bring up 2 kids in exactly the same way and one may never give you a moments trouble and the other may be a criminal!

I sometimes wonder if some kids are born 'bad', instead of being encouraged that way by their parents or significant others.

Those 2 girls are obviously in trouble, with such compelling video evidence, especially the one shown kicking and punching the old man.
They should be severely punished if they are found guilty in court.

Dear Banjo,

What will be important is the content of our
children's hearts and minds, or what's often
described as character. When we say, "It's
what's inside that counts," we speak a simple
but profound truth. I was raised very similar
to the way you were. Politeness and civility
were paramount and the emphasis was on lady-like
behaviour. I attended an all girls high school,
where a very strict Scottish headmistress instilled
in us the way girls should behave so that they could
grace any social gathering. Today that would probably
be considered as "quaint" by some people.

My parents instilled in me the love of books.
We all have books that lifted the fog for us, caused
the Great Aha, and literally changed our lives.
In my own case I learnt from biographies that even
great individuals start out as everyday children -
letting me know that life's possibilities are
without limit.

Then there were the role models in fairy tales and
legends and historical stories. Cinderella enchanted
not because she got the prince but because she was
cheerful and dignified even in unbearable
circumstances. King Arthur showed what a noble deed
looked like and that there is such a thing as duty and
sacrifice.

I'm sorry that you feel there's no hope for these young
girls. I'm not sure whether you're right. I would
prefer to think that given a change of atmosphere for
them, and under the right guidance of someone they
would come to respect - a change would indeed be possible.
However it would have to be someone prepared to put in
the time and effort to work with these girls to make
change a possibility. It would have to be someone who
would know how to reach out to these girls and reach
them. Someone with the experience of dealing with
difficult girls.

Foxy,
If they go to jail they'll get to know plenty of Aborigines who will be higher in the pecking order than they are, that could be the change of atmosphere they need to focus their minds.

It is inconceivable that they haven't had people reach out to them already and many times over, taking into account the long years of schooling, alone. I wonder what their teachers from Kindy up would say?

When should a 'girl' become accountable for her own decisions? Especially seeing that girls have many rights and opportunities in Australia, many free avenues for advice and many a free leg-up if they want to skill themselves or engage in useful work?

Ask business and property owners on the Gold Coast and elsewhere what they have to endure from the over-protected ferals who have every right and no responsibilities at all to speak of. At this moment there are 'housos' wrecking public and private housing and spending their guvvy hand-outs on booze, drugs and entertainment. The rental tribunals excuse damaged, dirty houses with dogs taken in and not cared for as simply 'wear and tear', and shrug their shoulders at the owner's responsibility and loss. Other responsible tenants pay higher rent as a result or the owners go bust - both happen.

Frankly, most people are fed up to the back teeth with all of the excuses for slack, drunken, violent, spiteful, unthankful creeps that we all have to pay higher taxes to keep. 'It is their parents and society's fault' and 'They haven't had the opportunity' and 'They need counselling' - that is all bollocks.

I seem to recall a thread that dealt with
schoolies on the Gold Coast and the violence
that they caused and a certain poster coming
to the defence of those schoolies and their
abnoxious behaviour - to the point where apartment
and hotel managers were looking off access to the
balconies for these trouble makers. I was even
accused of being sooo unfair to these kids
who just wanted to have fun. Interesting
now that this same poster has had such a change
of heart and sees things in a totally different
way. Or perhaps it was just an excuse to have a
go at me (again). Hmmmmmm!

"individual" asked 1 March 2014 9:15:56 AM:

"... saw some footage of what appears to be a white female kicking & pushing an elderly man ... Is there any reliable information on this incident ?"

There is little reliable information in this posting: Who is "individual"? When and where is this incident is supposed to have occurred? Who recorded the incident? Is there a copy on-line, so that a informed discussion of the issues could be held?

Indy the thread brings back memory's of another, girls with attitude.
That one and this spoke of a lack of femininity as we knew it once.
Maybe we all share responsibility in a way parents and the culture SOME kids are bought up in.
The need to be seen as in face book selfies contributes too.
I saaw two unfortunate girls best ignored and not over much value in just their clothing.

Foxy,

LOL

If you are going to recall the past you should be accurate, honest and give the context. With respect, you do twist things base over apex a heck of a lot to suit your anti-Australian and pro-'diversity' prejudice - your oft expressed hope of 'diversifying' Australia, presumably until the very people, their culture and traditions and even their history are purged from memory. Here is your elitist opinion of Australians and it is relevant to your posts that you do not link to to:

"It's important to remember Australia before the
waves of migration. It was dull, self-satisfied
and joylessly conformist. Not sinply(sic) null and boring,
but nullarboring. Not merely mindless, but lobotomised".

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6251&page=24

In fact it was you Foxy who, in the process of countering a police report concerning ethnic (Muslim) criminal gang takeovers of outlaw motor cycle gangs and other police reports of Muslim youths - who couldn't even ride motorbikes - being recruited by OMGs, asserted that the 'Schoolies' on the Gold Coast were far worse than the criminal bikie thugs!

My response at the time was that it was ludicrous to say that. I repeat the same today. That is not supporting the mild nuisance of school kids out to have a blast, but there is a chasm of Bungonia proportions between celebrating school kids who are over-reported (to put it mildly) by sensationalist current affairs programs and ethnic bikie thugs and their gun violence over drug territory.

Plainly you still believe as you claimed then that Queensland Schoolies are worse than the violent bikies who rioted and held Gold Coast police hostage in their station, but you are the odd one out indeed to perceive it that way.

otb,

I stand by my posting record Sir and at no time did I
equate schoolies with bikie criminal gangs.
You did that all on your own. And you're the
one that needs to give the full context - and not
just cherry-pick what suits you to make your point.
That's low tactics in any debate.

I was merely citing what was in the newspapers at the time
what hotel and apartment owners on the Gold Coast were
stating about the coming influx of schoolies and the preparations
that were being undertaken. And the concerns expressed by
the hotel and apartment owners.
You were the one who brought up the
criminal bikie gangs and went on one of your usual tirades
and of course with that comes the usual attributions to
putting words in people's mouths. Classic same old, same old.

As for the quote that you found so offensive and you've
atributed to me - again you did not give the
context in which this quote was used.
BTW: This quote was actually a quote
that was taken from an article written by Mr Phillip Adams -
reprinted from The Age, 12/7/1980, and which I have acknwledged
many times in the past on this forum - because it dealt with
the subject of "Multi-Culturalism in the Eighties."

You love going through my posting record (most people
don't
do that sort of thing - but you're on a vendetta of some
sort) and you regularly are trying to dig
things up that you feel you can then vent your faux indignation
over. Boy, I must really get under your skin.
Oddly enough this comes from a man who consistently refers to
people he doesn't really know as -
"Fabians," "Progressives," "Feminists," " Socialists,"
"Marxists" and others - too numerous to mention -
that you see as enemies of lovely, decent, "real" Australians
such as yourself.

Sad really.

Foxy,

I beg to differ, you did claim that Schoolies were more violent than the OMGs who were very much in the news for their violence on the Gold Coast.

You raised the subject in this thread and I have corrected you. Otherwise provide the link to your posts and mine to prove otherwise. As for your elitist, dismissive attitude to your fellow Aussies, I have previously linked to your posts where it appeared it was your own assessment. It was only very recently that you used quotation marks after another poster recognised its origins that you acted differently.

But in any event since you are prepared to insult Aussies you should at least give supporting evidence to demonstrate how you arrived at your conclusion. To date you have refused to do that. So be it I guess. However this a public discussion site and you can be confident of someone challenging you for evidence every time you sledge Aussies with that odorous quote. Here it is,

onthebeach, Wednesday, 26 February 2014 9:26:32 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6251&page=24

otb,

All I have ever done on this forum is cite historical
facts.
Especially Post World War II history of immigration.
I have given you heaps of reference sources in the past
so that you could verify this information. Yet you still
continue to claim that I am somehow sledging off at
Australians. I find that remarkable.

Anyway, I am tired of arguing with you.
I am tired of having to defend myself. I am tired of having
to continue to rebutt the wrong assumptions you make about me
and the list goes on. This is after all an opinion forum
and not a blood sport. However if you feel that you need to
persist in doing what you're doing - I shall leave you to it.
I want no part of it.

Foxy my freind you know I am on your side here.
Too that you gave me advice about letting some get to me.
Logic and truth will not work .
You can not turn the head of your troubles away.
BUT you can take the advice you gave me.

MANY disagree with us both, but few seem to get great joy out of it.
Never feed a troll

Dear Belly,

Thank You.

Giving advice is always easier than taking it
I'm finding out. But I shall try really hard in
this instance.

The reasonable option would be to direct your attention and energy towards answering some of the questions that inevitably arise from your posts.

That quote is the sort of superficial, throwaway, attention-seeking rudeness that can be expected of a mug lair. It betrays heaps of not very nice stuff about its originator and others who use it. That anyone would repeat it over and over in public is astonishingly awful and rude.

Which is why you have both taken the easy way out.

otb,

Again with the insults.

Unless you start acting with civility you shall
continue to be ignored.

Never feed a troll
Belly,
I wholeheartedly agree but isn't it due to trolls who ride on the pretend waves of civility & compassion that we have reared people such as those two females in the first place ? Wasn't it the goody, goody bleating trolls who said don't discipline children, jail is not the answer, national service is no good, gave us PC etc etc etc etc.
I agree with you let's not feed trolls any longer, put a stop to it now.

Indy we very much agree here.
I have recently looked back at mt childhood with my best mate who is my brother.
We agree our beloved parents left some good stuff in the locker room.
But not for a second did they not impress the need for good manners and respect on us.
Some of today,s parents are a pure joy to watch.
Constantly reminding the kids they are loved and it is just great.
But not only Ferrel,s make bad parents.
Aware these girls have had a brother put up a defense, but judging on nothing but their manner and dress I would rather believe what my eyes saw.

LOL, it is only a couple of the old hands who believe they 'own' the forum have been doing their joined-at-the-hip, repel-all-boarders act for yonks. Needy.

However it is a discussion site where views are supposed to be challenged and evidence sought. It is not a place where billboards can be erected for particular politics and beliefs, especially those based on flawed world views and any critic rudely dealt with until s/he departs.

From her story, Foxy was born here. However she is noticeably different to her parents and others who fled Europe after WW2 and would have blessed the people who gave them sanctuary. Chalk and cheese. Certainly there is no evidence of Australia's largest Lituanian community ever claiming they were poorly dealt with or discriminated against and they have never claimed the victim status that Foxy constantly demands for them. Foxy is always obliquely targeting the British as the root causes of all that offends her. Apparently it is those 'white' convict and settler stock, many of whom are migrants themselves and come from a host of different cultures too, who are forever blameworthy and obnoxious in her eyes. They need to be 'diversified' out of existence and forgotten tout suite, apparently. Yet her parents and their compatriots would have thanked these people for taking them in when they were desperate.

So it is only reasonable to ask why Foxy has developed such a toxic and enduring dislike and indifference, separateness even, to the people, culture and traditions her parents would have gladly accepted.

Then again, perhaps that is the cultural cringe of the whining, wine-quaffing middle-class educated and comfortable Left, whose elitism (and refined taste buds) demands everything foreign in preference and definitely nothing 'colonial'. Mind you, that doesn't prevent the Left from accepting their stipends, grants and hand-outs from the taxes collected from those 'inferiors' they see as always below them.

Why is it so?

Returning to the 'ain't it awful' TV news (TV makes the news) concerning two obnoxious young women, there would be many such incidents recorded daily on fixed video cameras in public areas and on public transport.

Just saying that the media is providing entertainment not news. Tabloids.

otb,

From your recent post you confirm
that you are inferior and no amount of explanation
on my part would change that.

Why are you being allowed to continue polluting
on this forum. Do you give big donations, are you
a relative, or a former retired politician?

GY well it is time.
Sorry know my thoughts about politics and life in general are not yours.
But I *for the first time in years*ask is it worth me staying around?
OTB at best is unwise but if not trolling to cause trouble what?
I never ever claimed ownership and deeply resent constant lies and barbs
It is my intention to report my own post as a way of highlighting OTB troll like one above

This thread is about a couple of unsavoury girls.

See link below for news about a couple more.

Like it or not we have these types in our society.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/teenage-sex-slaves-used-as-personal-atm-court-hears-20140304-341zf.html

Foxy, I find your suggestion that I have been bribed to let Onthebeach post on this forum offensive in the extreme.

I not Belly's post.

I cannot see that OTB is doing anything that a whole load of other posters haven't done over the years.

There certainly seemed to be a few who popped-up and queried me everytime I posted. I found it tiresome, but I wasn't prepared to do anything about it, because I don't see how I legitimately can.

Unless someone wants to make out a case that OTB is being abusive.

I find his approach aggressive and unhelpful, but the whole point of free speech is that if you only allow things you like, then it's not free speech.

I think Banjo has a point. This thread has incrementally strayed from what it was originally about. Perhaps you should all go back there.

GY I have nothing but respect for you and the forum.
I however disagree with your view.
Few over the years use taunting as a sporting endeavor and my constant requests to be left alone have only raised the volume.
I however except your answer and predict OTB will raise the volume even more.
I weary of the battle.

Dear Graham,

I was merely questioning why someone
has not been suspended for repeated personal
attacks and innuendos of people across several threads,
when others have been suspended for less.

Seeing as your forum does rely on donations - Hence the
suggestions of donations. If that offends you then you have
to understand that this poster's behaviour is equally
offensive to others that he attacks. He's been given
time and time again various explanations and references which
he simply ignores. He's been asked not to
attack and make personal attributions that simply are not
true or correct and are insulting. He's been asked not
to address his posts to people who neither want nor respect
his opinion. He can address issues - but not people
personally who want nothing to do with him. He
ignores even that request - that is harrassment.

You've indicated - you've taken
offence for one minor sugestion. Try putting yourself
in others shoes - if there were multiple such suggestions
and they were persistent and followed you around on this
forum.

As for "freedom of speech?"
People who enjoy the rights of
free speech have a duty to respect other people's
rights. A person's freedom of speech is limited by the
rights of others - for example, the right to maintain their
good reputation.

Most democratic countries have four major restrictions on
free expression. Laws covering libel and slander, public
decency, and laws against the urging of violence and hate speech.

However, this is your forum and of course it's your call.
I agree that we should go back to the topic of this thread -
but let us try to keep it on a rational debate level.

Out of respect for the forum rules I have not defended myself and nor will I add to this sorry discussion. It would be grossly unfair if I couldn't offer one post to defend myself, since the two complainants have deliberately taken their allegations into the public arena of the forum in contravention of the rules that must have been explained many times before.

Just one quick search demonstrates that there is nothing I have done that hasn't been done before. Obviously the often repeated gratuitous insult directed at Australians has drawn challenges and 'please explains' similar to mine before. See here,

sonofgloin, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 1:15:05 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4197&page=6

I will leave it at that.

Foxy,
OTB is not the only one persistent.

I seem to recall challenging you on the legality of persons entering Aus without a valid visa, and have had to do so many times. I have provided links and extracts from the DIAC website in relation to this issue. Yet you still persist to claim their entry is quite legal. You consistently ignore the evidence provided, even though the entry illegality is the only grounds on which our officials can detain. Further, you have not, and cannot, provide any other reason as to why our governments, both Labor and LNP, can detain these persons without valid visas. You seem to infer that our governments are acting outside our own laws.

The point is that you do doggedly stick to your beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence, and will not accept factual evidence placed before you. Others have also given you the same evidence.

So I find it hypocritical for you to complain about OTB when you will not accept factual evidence, but carry on regardless.

Banjo, "This thread is about a couple of unsavoury girls....Like it or not we have these types in our society"

Agree.

What I wonder is two things:

- first, is that a fact that was previously hidden from view through the prevailing very strong positive stereotype that favoured girls - which (positive stereotype) could explain why relatively few women have been charged by authorities for (say) domestic violence; and,

- secondly, if violence and bad behaviour have increased, what are the contributing factors?

I remember at a dinner party where someone showed a videotape about Australia narrated by Barry Humphries that everyone nodded emphatically when Barry talked about everyone being so nice, polite and law-abiding back in the Fifties to Seventies. I cannot link to it unfortunately.

Where did things go wrong? What are the root causes?

Dear Foxy, if you call people corrupt you cannot expect them to ignore it, nor to just shrug the offensiveness of the suggestion off. You need to apply the same standards to yourself that you appear to want to apply to others.

Common decency would suggest that you would apologise for such a comment.

On your other point this is an open forum and people can address whomever they like. You don't have to engage with them. If you are abused that is another matter. But I can't see that you have been.

By complaining on thread rather than having a valid reason to ask for a deletion you've actually succeeded in drawing more adverse attention to yourself than otherwise.

I suggest everyone get back to the topic here, or leave it alone if it is exhausted. I think the two assailants are claiming victim status. Surely we could talk about that instead.

I will take a spell.
But highlight it was OTB not me or Foxy who took this to the public.
In his post here and a long list of other taunting posts.
And would ask, what if all posters behaved like that here.
Using half truth and lies to taunt other posters.
I highlight again with out some fences, some reason taunting is not seen as OK we all suffer.
Banjo you know we must never use the fact Foxy or any one thinks differently, to justifie taunts or we are not a community.

In the interests of getting this thread back on track here is that link again about a couple of 'nice ladies'.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/teenage-sex-slaves-used-as-personal-atm-court-hears-20140304-341zf.html

If we think the couple that bashed and abused the old man are bad, have a look at this pair about exploiting young girls. I cannot think of a suitable penalty.

Who would be a copper or a DOCS worker?

Diminished responsibility through personal circumstances is a weak defence.

That and the traditional shield of positive stereotyping of women, even where they have committed disgusting offences against young girls, will likely see them escape the sort of custodial penalty that should apply.

Banjo and who ever wishes.
I have supported this thread from its first post.
As a favor can those critical of my actions here read the thread again.

And tell me how the whole blue would have started if not for the deliberate and off topic taunting from OTB

Now be honest, at least five past efforts from me to cool the taunting can be found in this forum.
In the end I charge OTB with the start and continual feeding of this event.
And take it as an insult to free speech that mine or Foxy,s thoughts opinions and words play any role in our being targeted.
My spell, apart from watching this thread begins.
I offer my thanks to every contributor Friend or foe as in fact I search for a possible new site, not unhappy here but unable to not think I see a bias, that is unwilling to hold OTB accountable for his actions.
My regards Graham.

To add to the case reported in the OP and the later disturbing case posted by Banjo, it is common for street kids and 'kid' is a broad term including teens, to assault school students.

http://tinyurl.com/m4layq8

In the vicinity of fast food outlets like Maccas, gangs of young thugs male and female standover school students for money and likely molest them anyhow.

My family have volunteered for years with Surf Life Saving and see thuggery first hand daily on and around beaches that used to be safe and carefree. Although there always was a small and persistent rogue element terrorising the public around the NSW/Qld border. These are not the surfs of years ago who would live on a loaf of bread and share digs to surf. They are youths, male and female, who gravitate to the Coast, never intend to work and choose crime as a way of life and as a recreation. Most likely their families were the same. There is a certain mentality, and it is by choice.

The excuses of socio-economic alienation and sad inheritance from an unsatisfactory upbringing can only go so far to explain their behaviour. There are many others with similar backgrounds who are peaceful, law-abiding and work.

What can police and DOCS do? First, through direct, real consultation with long term residents draw a comparison with what was and why with what is now and why. No-one would be surprised at all if much of it isn't the unforseen negative consequences of 'Progressive' social policies, such as the overwhelming proportion of fatherless families, and poorly screened immigration. That is just to pick two. One could go on with soft courts and lack of concern about victims, poorly resourced and poorly supported police and so on, but those are the outcomes of populist, political 'Progressive' policies anyhow.

We want our Gold Coast back. Remember the happy-go-lucky crowds with fun and a swim on their minds, nothing more? But then everyone wants their suburbs and cities back too.

To all,
It is good to see that others are picking up on the Graham bias and personal political support club.

I find it hard to not agree Chris Gaff I have met GY he is a good bloke.
But openly tells me he disagrees with almost every thing I say.

I can wear that.
But find it impossible to believe the OTB post here and many many more in other threads is other than deliberate taunting and would have seen me in the sin bin.

I am saying farewell to the site I love and its posters.
I truly think Grahams ruling leaves me with the understanding I am not wanted here and OTB is free to say as he wishes, to us left of center posters he gets so much joy out of taunting.
One last favor, can any one recommend a site for me.
Not a pro anything just one that does not take sides
My thanks and regards to all
Belly

Belly,
If you go you pass victory to GY.
He has his sights set on anyone that disagrees with his views as I have found in his private emails to me and his rejections of posts.
However having said that I would not walk away as he would like.
I spoke out against the psychotic rants of one poster and I complained about the personal attacks of another.
The simple answer is that some can and some can't and to me that is censorship at the high end.
I suggest you sit and watch and when you have something to say just jump in and say it but don't leave just because GY wants you to.
In the job I always found that the biggest critics really had nothing rational to say anyway.

CG I have left before to come back would prove me weak.
So after this thread it is a firm goodby from me.
I do see a constant and contrived assault by OTB and wounder if he is protected.
In the past such taunting saw me warned and others sin binned.
I am unable to convince myself my politics is not the driver of OTB invulnerability.
Any fair observer will find it hard to avoid his clear crime against the well being of a forum once known as a place for free speech.
I regret the fall in standards and the clear bias against some views and for others.
GY is or was a Liberal, I can wear that, but other views exist.
He after all owns the site,
I however want to continue posting but not here any thoughts?
oz politics was formed I believe after another died, if true I once was a foundation member but its style seems unfit for open debate, and has many adjudicators to please!
TEST ME! READ OTB CONTRIBUTIONS TO JUST THIS THREAD TELL ME HE HAD ANY THOUGHT OTHER THAN TAUNTING.
Without that post from the bloke Foxy and I would never have had a reason to complain or squabble, tell me that is not true!

I'm calling a halt to this discussion of moderation.

Belly, if you want to leave then leave, but it is you who are making that decision, not me. I just checked your record and I've never suspended you, and hardly every deleted a post of yours, so I'm not sure why you would think I was trying to limit discussion to things that I agree with.

I don't want you to leave, but if that's what you want to do, stop agonising and get on with it.

Chrisgaff is a different case. He incited violence on this forum, and apparently resents me taking his post down. If they are the sort of posts he wants to make, then we are better without him. We have a very open-minded approach to what can be posted, but there are limits to free speech, and inciting a riot is one of them.

So, that's the last on moderation. Any more will be deleted, and I won't be making any more comment on the issue.

I haven't had a peek here for a couple of weeks, but noted this thread.

This isn't about moderation, it's about otb's style.

It's well known on this forum that otb has a penchant for targeting females here, choosing some usually insignificant point, blowing it out of proportion, then twisting and misrepresenting his target's meaning - and generally devoting post after post to putting the boot in.

Since very few females "regularly" frequent the general forum these days (I wonder why?), that usually leaves him targeting Foxy (although he used to try it on with me often)

So much so, that many pages are devoted to otb ruthlessly and "creatively" impugning his target woman - usually diverting the thread significantly to do so.

He's done this regularly and over a long period of time.

It's therefore not so surprising that occasionally his target may become exasperated by such overt trolling an attempt to hit back.

I cannot believe that these girls/women have not been charged with racial vilification. Their statements as they thrashed the old man were loud and clear.

Thanks for that qualified support Poirot. I think the solution to OTB is just to ignore him. You don't have to respond to his efforts. I know that can be hard to do, as I'm partial to biting back on occasion as well, but in the end, nothing much hangs on the criticism of an anonymous poster on a comment thread.

Chris, I think a conviction for assault is likely to be swifter and more satisfying than trying them for racial villification. It would be hard not to see a court convicting them too. Not sure whether you noticed, but one was on bail for armed robbery. No judge is going to be too considerate of her feelings.

Let's hope they hide the jail key for some time for those two. I think this is a perfect time to show that people have had enough of such spoilt morons. The time is right to throw the book at them & scare others into reconsidering that mentality.
I'd like to see them put to some good physical work whilst in jail.

individual,
Do you really think prison time actually has any effect on any type of crime.
If the justice system was swift and there were no free legal giants and the time behind bars included minimum social attachments and maximum hard labor perhaps with a daily dose of the lash there might be a deterrent but not the way the present system works.
When I was in the court system as a police prosecutor more than half the sentence for an offense was based on precedents (criminal record and associations etc.) today most of the sentence is generated with reference to the future of the offender and the victim is forgotten.
Wrong, wrong, Wrong.

chrisgaff1000,
That wouldn't be the case if we had a moral justice system run by heterosexuals.

individual,
Ops!

chrisgaff1000,
Well, can anyone proof that the people presently running these shows are in any way normal ?
Judging by their judgements one can safely question their suitability for the job. How can people who are not part of normal everyday society be deemed qualified to make decisions on normal everyday situations ?
What's been done about these two females ? Are they in jail ? Have they had to pay any fines ? Why aren't there any updates ? we need to know that justice is being done, how else can we be confident that those charged with protecting us are actually doing so ?

The focus of this article appears to me to be the colour of these little mongrels and the poor elderly man who was attacked.'Was the attack based on racism?'I think the main focus mongrel children attacking elderly man. Didnt actually see or hear this item of news so am just going on posted comments.
These girls, teens im guessing, are already criminals, consider themselves untouchable and are totally void of respect or discipline.
Before they become like the two ('resilient young women ''capable of surviving on the street' who are undoubtedly receiving the dole or disability pension, and whose capabilities of surviving involve criminal abuse of kids who still may have half a chance) they must be punished and disciplined in such a way that their developing any further into lifelong criminals is halted and reversed. The transition could be long and more than likely excruciating for them. Like the two child abusers, jail is no answer nor is returning them to their peers or a womens refuge or back on the dole or fit kits. All this is doing is institutionalizing them. Before it becomes all they know and while the kids brains are still developing, they should be sentenced, as criminals to Boot Camp. Hard lobour- building fences, buildings whatever. Exercise discipline education diet self respect and respect for all other beings. For these older crims to have any sort of decent life with values need the same deal. A real challenge for all concerned but the alternatives are pretty dismal.
And on that note the focus again not being on race or sex but the fact they are a group of individuals who have committed unacceptable wrongs and are being given a second chance.
I was bought up in the seventies, 'do as your told, speak when your spoken to, respect your elders, mind your mouth and your manners etc was the upbringing. Not to mention the wooden spoon, even your neighbors or cousins hand-me-downs, adults were Mr and Mrs. As a whole very little of the above would be recognized these days. Obvious and sad.

Not many things disgust or anger me more than hearing of an elderly or helpless person being insulted or physically harmed undeservedly by low lives. And any innocent bystander, despite feeling the natural instinct to defend, would be deterred simply by fear and intimidation of the callousness feral behavior they are witnessing.
Finally! Any person caught committing crimes like these, (beyond comprehension for most), have clearly started off small crime, and their sense of lawlessness is thriving, must not be given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to continue their blood sport. A slap on the wrist and off you go is for kids who have drawn on each other, pinched the others lollies or blown a raspberry at grandma. Unprovoked, callous and remorseless physical assault and battery, causing even minor physical injuries to the victim the crime of an adult, so when a child or teen is the offender, he/she must have all rights removed and be committed to a full, extreme rehabilitation.

jodelie,
Nothing is going to change whilst we have "Untouchables" as the emissaries of the Law Societies acting as our magistrates and judges.
In Queensland last week a female magistrate gave a viscous basher of an old person 250 hours of 'community service' and DID NOT RECORD A CONVICTION.

I cant understand how community service can be considered as justifiable punishment, and hopefully isnt even a consideration for repeat violent offenders.
As for a fine, in most cases will be covered by a $10 deduction from the offenders dole. A community service order involving intense anger management would at least benefit to a degree the majority.
Years ago my partner at the time was charged with DUI. Loss of license and community service. This in turn became my punishment as his vehicle was essential for his job resulting resulting in the loss of that job for this period of time. I found a job for him where I worked. Though as we worked different hours (and his refusal to lower himself to use public transport) I had to leave work to pick up or drop him off at inconvenient times. Not to mention travel to social activities.
Most days on his CSO, he worked short hours, had a hoot with the crew and compared stories. Need I say more.
Are these violent crims who are $100 percent guilty, granted a defense attorney? If so why? Extenuating circumstances will often arise-tough up bring etc. (Those extenuating circumstances are mostly the cause of their tough rebellious criminal behavior) so does not excuse or condone.
Tough treatment and extensive rehabilitation must be the only way to save them from themselves and future innocent victims.
I knew of a girl who from the age of fifteen would return home having lost all her belongings because she got into a fight with 'some b..ch' or a guy. I warned her that you cant take your anger out on others and one day she would pick the wrong person.
Unfortunately (mistaking kindness for weakness) she attacked me. Once out of hospital, she was informed by the police I could but wouldnt press charges on the proviso she underwent counseling and a complete alcohol ban.
The tough rebellious behavior ceased for that short period, only to return just as ugly.

Just watched (in disgust) the footage of this malice gutless attack. Lost for words for a while. To see these spoilt viscous little criminals being dealt with by the law would be very satisfying.'Welcome to the real world where you now are accountable for your actions.
Loss of all possessions, yes even your mobile! incarceration, no crying to mum and dad to bail you out. You want to be an adult? Now see how adult criminals are dealt with.'
I only hope the law is sensible and doesnt let them off as lightly as they would expect, with a slap on the wrist. (The last time their mum did that she probably got a back hander.)
Boot camp, hard labour, maybe even sent to a third world country to look after the sick and dying elderly.