Cont...

Hosea is particularly instructive about God's attitude to Platypus900's 'innocent unborn'. In chapter 9:14 we have God's prophet Hosea extolling him to;
“Give them, Lord—
    what will you give them?
Give them wombs that miscarry
    and breasts that are dry.”

But God goes one better, even perchance if one is fortunate to be born then this is what God promises will befall them in verse 16;

“Ephraim is blighted,
    their root is withered,
    they yield no fruit.
Even if they bear children,
    I will slay their cherished offspring.”

And in 2 Samuel we see that what God promises to do to a new born, innocent child is invariably carried out;

13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.
16 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.
17 And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.
18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.

So let us countenance no more, talk from the likes of Platypus900 about God's Law being morally superior to our secular offerings, it isn't.

All hail the embryo! The woman who bears that embryo is a living creature who has sinned. She has had sexual intercourse and like other human beings is a sinful lost creature, but the embryo within her is pure and without sin. We can disregard the interests of that sinful creature to preserve the holy life of the embryo. Its life is no longer holy after it is born. Then it may sin. If only we could preserve the holy life of the embryo, but all good things must come to an end. If the pregnancy comes to term the issue will enter this sinful world. Oh, lamentation and sorrow!

Fifth Philosopher’s Song – Aldous Huxley

A million million spermatozoa,
All of them alive:
Out of their cataclysm, but one poor Noah
Dare hope to survive

And among that billion minus one
Might have chanced to be
Shakespeare, another Newton, a new Donne-
But that One was Me.

Shame to have ousted your betters thus,
Taking ark while the others remained outside!
Better for all of us, forward Homunculus,
If you’d quietly died!

csteele

Thank you for pointing out biblical sources of God's views on young humans, but I doubt it will encourage the pro-lifers to read more and thump less. Heaven forbid that they may become more christian.

Dear Fester,

None of the biblical sources that csteele pointed out were actually written by Christians. They all came from the Jewish bible which has been integrated into the Christian scriptures.

Dear david f,

>>And among that billion minus one
Might have chanced to be
Shakespeare, another Newton, a new Donne-
But that One was Me. <<

This sounds like the ancients’ view that the woman provided only a passive vessel into which the man placed his seed, the potential new person, i.e that - in contemporary language - the sperm on its own was the “potential Shakespeare, Newton”, no mention of the mother’s ovum.

Of course, Huxley knew better, but still - you seem to know so many things - do you happen to know when did our ancestors discover that the male as well as the female contribute “on equal terms” to the formation of the new person? In other words, when did they come to see procreation as a sperm joining an ovum, rather than a seed being implanted?

Usually the male ancestors are listed, on the other hand I think a person is formally regarded a Jew only if his mother was Jewish. Well, you will know better. That would contradict my assumption about the ancients' views, so maybe its completely wrong, and they always knew of the contribution "on equal terms". Also, in the New Testament one Evangelist traces Joseph's, another Mary's, lineage to David.

george..,,<<..In other words, when did they come to see procreation as a sperm joining an ovum, rather than a seed being implanted?>>.

that would be when..[in the old testiment]
one clever fella got the spotted goats..by understanding resessive genes

ps has anyone e\..heaRD THE 13THE SPERM thesis?

it seems the first dont get in..
nor 2..through to12

BUT the egg membrane is tight enough..then
that the 13 th gets in..does the job

so none of us are here cause we wonthe race
we won..because 12 faster/stronger of us helped us win