csteele gday bloke! you remember donnt you? I do not believe a word you say.
As we get in to personal abuse, I do try not to, lets look at something.
OPINIONS, THOUGHTS, IDEAS, how do we come by them?
How do we judge our own?
And how do we value/judge others.
Do we give more value to ours, if you answer is not some times take a look at your self.
I SOMETIMES see a post, almost daily, that puts me back on track, so well thought out it overshadows anything I said, not however from you csteele, ever.
Look again, just what is behind Migration, am I any place near right in saying Australia wants to grow, and Migration from most country,s helps.
So who is this Australia, the thing country group that makes our minds up for us who will come here.
Could it be the UN in harness with this Australia who is experimenting with the melting pot of humanity to see what comes out in say a century.
I favor such a thing, one humanity, many faces many colors all Ausralian and proud of it.
Muslim, a RELIGION THAT IS government, is that going to blend in to the mix?
Look at the teaching, the different faces the many teachings of this SOME TIMES BIGOTED creed, how will it blend, will it in 100 years be AUSTRALIA?
I must remember, modern man is to become just gay enough, to not have his opinions, to not see a problem.
But as always if war comes to die for the very folk who named him for?
Doing what millions of Muslims do every day, telling about our differences like say merry Christmas to us being a sin.
In this matter IF no other, those who believe in no GOD MUST CONFRONT WHY THEN ARE WE ON OUR KNEES to this one.

Suseonline “Australia has weathered many new groups of immigrants over the past centuries.”

Because? They were European, which is the point I made.
Mixing Christian Indo-Europeans with Christian Indo-Europeans isn't chalk and cheese, that's chalk and chalk.

“the sky still hasn't fallen in.”

Because? The core Australian ethnicity still predominates.
But it's declining all the time.

The past fuels the present, but that momentum won't hold forever.
Australian-born White Australians were 90% of the population in the 1940s.
Now it's about 60%.
When it falls below 50%, sayonara, party over.
Then you will see the true face of multiculturalism: tribal warfare.

Lexi “to many people - Muslims conjure forth images of women behind veils, adulterers being stoned, thieves having their hands cut off, public floggings and executions, martyrdom in holy wars, aircraft hijackings and terrorist bombings.”

Because? It's true.

Paul1405 “They all came to Australia for the oddest of reasons, many came for the absurd reason of wanting a better life for their family.”

Oh, the old chestnut: a better life. Aw.

And? Why are *we* to provide that better life?
Why aren't they responsible for improving their *own* societies, instead of just parasitically benefiting from *our* ancestors' blood, sweat and tears?
We have a better life because *our* people made it better.

In case you've forgotten, many Australians were living in slums and indentured servitude not so long ago.
Our recent “better life” is an historical anomaly, not some eternal, magic or automatic phenomena.

“Edward Moses Obeid. John Ibrahim, Ivan Milat, Martin Bryant”

Oh, another old chestnut. The argument-by-individuals, in this case bad examples (usually it's Victor Chang mode, the good examples)

Fail. You can find good and bad individuals in any group.
This does not invalidate the observation that certain groups have a documented greater tendency to social problems.
Greater numbers encourages segregation, magnifying the problems.
Inversely, reducing the numbers has the opposite effect.

“crazy, loony fools who at one time or another espoused "unacceptable" ideas”

Don't kid yourself. You are toeing the line, not leading a revolution.

csteele,
You said,"I would say that a family who has migrated from an area where this odious procedure is rife is quickly disavowed of the practice once they are in Australia. While in some families it may survive a generation it is unlikely to continue into the second. If one had the ability to compare the rates of FGM in a thousand families who remained in these areas compared to a thousand second generation families of migrants who are living in Australia it is a no-brainer that the rates would be vastly different".

You would say would you? You would be wrong! Whilst there are no stats available the evidence is that FGM is increasing in Aus. This is dispite large ammounts spent on education of the selected groups 'at risk'. The education was started in 1994. Such is the strength of entrenched cultural practice. I am informed that girls that were 'cut' here years ago are now havong their own daughters done. It is culture handed down to each generation.

Belly is correct, pollies and the general public 'turn a blind eye'. People may express abhorrence of FGM but they are not concerned enough to put presure on pollies to enforce the law. Yet we carry out raids and prosecute people for holding cockfights. What does that tell you?

This 'blind eye' attitude means we do not even keep stats, yet Auburn and Canterbury hospitals, Sydney, have specialist units to treat post FGM problems, as does the Royal Womens in Melbourne.

After all this time, there is to be the first Prosecutions soon, one couple in WA and another 8 persons in NSW. These will be vitally important in reducing the incidence here, as it will show that we mean what we say. Hopefully more prosecutiopns to follow.

It is moments like these.
Not that as the add says you need Minties.
What we need is understanding.
As mentioned in my post above who is to say who is wrong, and who is right?
This subject, and going any place near to WELFARE reform, see,s me dumped on.
OK by me, but is csteele ALWAYS right, are the followers of that poster infallible? always.
IF I am a racist, xenophobe, are not the millions, of Muslims who hate us not too.
Banjo said FGM was practiced in other cultures, in Africa,many of those cultures are Muslim.
My opponents conveniently OVER LOOK the reason it is done.
*It is done so men keep control of women*
It proposes women do not enjoy sex after it.
We must confront a truth, this religion as no other is both belief and Government.
And no grounds other than words of love and a special blindness, from posters in support of csteele,s special blindness to my side,is blind.
Count the daily hourly murders and crimes committed against females including girls.
It would be entertaining, to see my opponents trying to justifie the Talibans attempt to kill that little girl, sinful that she is for wanting to be educated.
You. every one of you, have the chance to see a professional at work, csteele time and again, include folk not mentioned or part of this thread.
This is true Islam is both God and Government, that at least is its world wide aim.
IF the Catholic Church tried that?
No creed has any right to involve its self in politics.

Dear Banjo,

“Whilst there are no stats available the evidence is that FGM is increasing in Aus.”

Strewth mate, really?

You wouldn't let me get away with that so what makes you think you could?

Whose evidence? Yours? I happen to know two social workers who are engaged with Somali refugees and they both tell me the exact opposite. There are many actively seeking help with reversing the effects of FGM in clinics such as at the Royal Melbourne but very few attempting to maintain the cultural practice. There is actually quite strong opposition to it within the migrant community here.

That is not to deny it occurs and its incidence will to some extent mirror the first generation migrant numbers from areas that have FGM as a cultural practice but to claim rates don't dramatically drop after arriving in Australia is plain ludicrous.

If you can't accept the fact that given the legal, educational and societal restraints on the practice in Australia will mean dramatically less numbers of females of the current and future generations will suffer this procedure then your prejudice knows no bounds. If you do then surely that is a good thing we are achieving as a nation when we accept peoples from these areas.

From 1999–2000 to 2008–09 Australia accepted nearly 40,000 immigrants/refugees from areas within Africa where the FGM rates are traditionally around 75 to 98%.

You are correct in stating there are not relevant quantitative studies done in Australia nor overseas about the prevelance of support for FGM within migrant communities.

This is a link to a qualitative Norwegian study.
“Attitudes toward female circumcision among Somali immigrants in Oslo: a qualitative study”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3271810/

Despite its limitations it is quite revealing how much attitudes change to reflect their adopted country's attitude toward the practice. These are a few quotes;

“An anthropological study in Norway stated that FC, which is perceived as cleansing and a sign of womanhood in Somalia, has now been reinterpreted by Somali women in exile as “amputation and even mutilation.”

Cont..

Cont..

“It should be stopped because it is not a religious requirement. It is a cultural thing and we live far away from that culture now ... I think FC will soon be history among Somalis in Norway.” (43-year-old female)

“This practice is not a religious requirement, and therefore we have to stop it. We have experienced its pain, so how could we subject the same pain to our daughter?” (44-year-old female)

“I am against it because my religion doesn’t prescribe female circumcision. On top of that, it creates several health problems, and I have gone through all those complications. That is why I am against it.” (43-year-old female)

“God has created women in a good condition, and it doesn’t say that certain tissues should be removed from girls. The external genital tissues are created by God; if these tissues are cut, girls will no longer have any sexual feeling.” (19-year-old male)

“The majority of Somalis don’t support FC, but the surrounding environment is pushing them to circumcise their daughters. If they don’t, their daughter will be stigmatized by girls who are circumcised. In Norway, the majority of Somali girls are not circumcised, and thus circumcision is not a plus.” (48-year-old male)

“A friend of mine who uses “Facebook” told me that when he meets a girl, he always asks “if she is circumcised,” and if she says yes, he terminates the discussion. The boys in Norway want uncircumcised girls, and the parents know that their daughters will be better off without circumcision.” (48-year-old male)

“Men always ask if I am circumcised or not, that is their first question. I ask them why they ask that question, but it seems that they don’t want circumcised women.” (26-year-old female)

I have no reason to believe that this situation isn't reflected within Australia.

I am proud of the fact that by accepting those 40,000 migrants/refugees we have prevented literally thousands from suffering FGM. Why aren't you?