Washed,

Within my circle of friends are some who are what I term as born again Christians.
They don't like to think of themselves this way, and say they are simply Christians.
I am thinking of one particular hard drinking, womanising guy who says he had the same revelation as you describe. And he truly has become very different. We're still firm friends, but I have to say I like to be in his company more now than before this [as he avows] happened to him.

Now for all I know he dreamed this happened, and in reality he may have decided to change without any divine revelation to help him.
But the crux of the matter is that he is at peace with himself, and who would deny him that?

I haven't had this experience, and am content the way I am, but truth is, who can know what goes on inside another person? All I've asked of him is not to try and convert me, or preach to me. We respect each other's differences on this.

Regardless, it is more important that he is happy within himself, and if he chooses to believe he had help, who am I to suggest otherwise?

>>>You may need professional help.

What you're doing is turning the conversation from an honest discussion about God and religion and making it about me. You getting into ad honinems which are logically fallacious.

>>>Creationism is a delusion

Do you know what the creationist position is? If you don't, how do you know its a delusion? No, I didn't watch the video..I know very well what Eugenie Scott thinks of creationism. A more interesting question for this discussion is, why is there uniformity in nature?

>>>Read the bible. you say? What about talking the donkey and demons >>>in pigs? Comment thanks.

The bible contains descriptions of both the ordinary and the supernatural. It also has people being raised from the dead, and Jesus walking on water. Why is a talking donkey some kind of sticking point? God momentarily gave the donkey the ability to express itself to chastise balaam.

>>>Here it is

Ahh, okay..thanks. So why did you leave the Catholic religion?

>>>I'm close to that summation anyway.

How do you know God doesn't exist? Call me whatever names you like. I'll still care about you and pray for you.

>>>The fear of the ‘Lord’ is the beginning of the waste of a life.

The wasted life is one lived in ignorance of the One who created you.

>>>If a god does this, it is a god who should be abhorred, not adored.

Jesus paid for everyones sin on the cross. Your sin would be wiped away and your name written in the book of life if you asked Jesus into your life, and for forgiveness of sins. You don't have to go hell, and neither does anyone else. Hell is reserved for those unrepentant sinners who refuse to stop doing evil. Sin, before a holy and infinite God, deserves an infinite punishment. You don't see sin as a big deal, but God says that by no means will He pardon the guilty outside of Christ

David,

>>>What is right with torture?

God doesn't torture anyone. He gives people justice.

If a god proved he existed I would acknowledge that existence as I am a rational person. I am also an ethical person and would be opposed to such a monster.

It's not rational to send yourself to hell. If God exists, He also created everything you love, and the love itself comes from Him. Your idea of who God is warped. Has it ever occurred to you that you could
be wrong about God? This is the crux of atheism, that atheists deny God yet they hate Him. You have a palpable hatred for God, which is proof in itself that He exists. Atheism also is almost exclusively anti-christian, and the reason is, the Christian God is the true God.

>>>How would you react if you made a ‘godly’ mistake and your ‘Lord’ >>>decided to torture you forever.

Christians make mistakes every day. God gives more grace. To fall away from God you would have to willingly turn your back on Him, and refuse to hear Him any longer. We all deserve to go there, but Jesus gives us what we don't deserve; forgiveness for sins and eternal life.

What's important is what the truth is, worldwatcher. It's no secret what God can do. It only takes a willing heart that is open to knowing its Creator. Would you pray to a non-existant God to help you with your unbelief? Just pray..God I don't know if you're there, or if the bible is your word, but if you show me it is I follow you and obey you. Then read the book of John and see for yourself. It's a living God who gives these revelations, and nothing anyone says is necessarily going to convince you either way. I wouldn't expect you to follow God with no evidence; that wouldn't make any sense. God gave me evidence and He will give you evidence, if you want to know. If you're honest skeptic then why not ask Him to reveal Himself to you?

washed,

It is pointless answering your questions when you don’t return the favour. Rational discussion is a two way street. I've persevered far longer with you than I should have but have taken your naivety into account.

Let’s shift gears for a moment. How about we assume, because I am susceptible, I followed the magic words and am now an avid follower of Jesus/Yahweh….and I love this ‘Lord’ of the universe. It has proven its existence to me with the same magic it proved itself to you. Halleluiah!

I now believe in the sky-fairy as I have had a personal revelation from it. That is fine, but I have not lost my rationality and know that to convince others of my wonderful luck is impossible without evidence. I would therefore not try as I wouldn't expect anyone to believe me as I have no proof. I have also not lost my sense of justice and knowledge of what is ethical and what is monstrous and I know that this god will still torture those not lucky as you and I for eternity if they have ‘sinned’. (Which is just about everybody, according to you)

I'm afraid at this stage I would be in an impossible situation of ‘loving the Lord’ (I really wouldn't love it just because it is a god) and in doing so, surrendering my humanity. There would be no other choice that I could make than to attempt to overthrow this tyrannical monster out of respect for the rights of others as it doesn't know what it is doing. If not possible, after all it is a god, for the rest of eternity I would have to pretend I love it.

My love for this monster having waned because of the suffering it is causing to my fellow humans and instead of love; I would despise it for its lack of compassion, brutality just because it can be and its tyrannical nature.

Thankfully such a monster does not exist and none of this will be needed.

Wake up and figure it out for yourself.

David

washed,

No more questions. I am not postulating anything. You have to prove your god exists and not by the emotional filled claptrap provided so far. That is common to religions and does not prove anything. No, I'm wrong; it proves humans are susceptible to believe just about anything if the right buttons are pushed when living in a society/community/ culture of single-minded believers.

I can imagine the warm comments you receive from fellow believers about your transformation from a ‘secularist’ to a ‘true Christian’. You possibly feel very special and I can understand that.

Stop muddying the waters with subjective ideas and a failure to comment on pertinent points. Because you can write words is not meaningful unless those words are rational. Yours are not.

Your religious leaders have told you that you have the ‘truth’ and the attacks on Christianity by atheism have to be countered. They have told you to fight back but have not provided you with the intellectual weaponry to do so. They are desperate and no such weaponry exists.

Read this carefully. I do not have to prove anything.

However, this is all I expect you to accomplish. Anything else you add is just smokescreen. The first reference to words in the Bible or magical ideas will disqualify you.

1. Prove your god exists to rational people right now.

2. Cite studies in peer reviewed accredited scientific journals disproving the theory of evolution by creationists.

David