washed,

Why bring up world peace. What has that to do with this topic?

Are Muslims ‘depraved’? Are Hindus ‘depraved’? Am I ‘depraved’? What form does this ‘depravity’ take in Muslims, Hindus and me? I don’t consider I am depraved.

Repeating posts is not very intellectually impressive. Why do you do that?

And by the way, this phrase, “There are two kinds of skeptics. An honest skeptic and a dishonest skeptic” can be found here. http://www.mountainmonergism.com/on_topic/an_agnostic_is_a_dishonest_.html Is that your website or did you think a bit of plagiarising would go down well? The hint was the ‘k’ in sceptic. That is North American. Are you North American?

So, I’m to be, “…cast into the lake of fire” when I die. Does that bother you? I would be very distressed if that was to happen to anyone. No good saying it is my choice that I’m headed for hell for the monumental crime of not believing because that only shows how religion has taken away your humanity. It really is a disgusting way to think. You can trust me on this, but I will never lower my ethical standards to accept that anyone, no matter the crime, should be tortured forever. What an utterly repulsive idea.

If you had been following the posts on this thread you would know my background. Try reading the opinion of others and stop concentrating on trying desperately to support what you already believe. You may have been brought up in a secular household but your culture was Christian do doubt. But even if you culture was not Christian, it would have followed some kind of woo as all countries do. Some people are more susceptible than others to various levels of indoctrination. Genetics and nurture do not work in an exact manner.

Tell me about how a god revealed himself to you? Was it visibly or did it speak to you or was it both or some other way? And the big question is, why should anyone believe you if it all happened in your head?

David

OzSpen,

You are forgiven my son, go and sin no more.

The ABS figures show a general decline but it depends on how you read it. For instance, 20% of the population are children under the age of 14 years. What religion would they be if they were children in Iran or India etc? Children are not little Christians, Hindus or Muslims and only parrot the beliefs of parents/guardians. As this thread shows, even adults have problems coming to grips with religious concepts.

No doubt you have heard of the Disraeli quote, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Census figures on religion are inaccurate for a number of reasons and the Atheist Foundation of Australia has made a submission to the Australian Bureau of Statistics to alter the question on religion in the next Census. We have done this to stop people such as you promoting false information which can skew politics.

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=16194

A good indication of a country’s religiosity is the number of people who attend a church on a regular basis. There are no accurate figures on this but a few years ago it was thought to have been between 7% - 15%. This is hardly a sign of growing religiosity as only a few decades ago the figure would have been 50% or more.

David

David,

<<You are forgiven my son, go and sin no more.>>

I gladly accept your very kind offer of forgiveness, but the latter, 'Go and sin no more', is not within my capability. That's why I'm daily grateful for God's openness to hear my confession of sin to seek His forgiveness.

I read your AFA submission to the Australian Bureau of Statistics and I agree with some of your suggestions. I consider that the "No Religion" option should be stated at various places in the list for different censuses. In fact, it would make for more open and transparent statistics if the list of religious options were varied with each census. This could possibly reduce the 'donkey vote'.

You stated: <<A good indication of a country’s religiosity is the number of people who attend a church on a regular basis. There are no accurate figures on this but a few years ago it was thought to have been between 7% - 15%. This is hardly a sign of growing religiosity as only a few decades ago the figure would have been 50% or more>>. However, you provided no documentation so I have no idea from which you plucked those figures. The denomination I attend tracks its church attendance at all church services.

The results of the National Church Life Survey of 2011 give an indicator of church attendance and church life in Australia. But the results are not yet available.See: http://www.ncls.org.au/

The data we have from the Australian Census and other information, examples of which I have provided, are not as gloomy ('rusty', to use your language) as you want to post as an atheist. However, church attendance should not be a comprehensive indicator or Christian faith as there are some church services that some committed Christians would not attend. The evidence so far (as presented in my previous post) indicates a shift in attendance to the evangelical churches such as the Sydney Anglicans, some of the Melbourne Anglican diocese, Baptists and Pentecostals.

David,

<<Try reading the opinion of others and stop concentrating on trying desperately to support what you already believe>>

This is a very unfair and biased comment by you to 'washed' as this is exactly what you do. You try to desperately support what you believe as an atheist in every post of yours that I've read in this thread.

Yours is an example of the pot calling the kettle black. Yours is a self-refuting statement.

OzSpen,

“but the latter, 'Go and sin no more', is not within my capability.”

That is or was a Catholic confessional incantation said by the priest. I said it as a joke. Don’t tell me religion has removed your funny bone. It can do that as the jokeless bible will attest to.

The figures for church attendance are hard to find. The figure range I gave you are on the high side. Look here for statistics for Australia and other places. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_population_growth

Diagram half way down shows Australia at just over 7%. I haven’t read the page and presume it is indicative of what I am saying. If not, I'm sure if you search you will find the figures I gave are close to reality. And here: http://www.ncls.org.au/default.aspx?sitemapid=2260

“However, church attendance should not be a comprehensive indicator or Christian faith as there are some church services that some committed Christians would not attend. The evidence so far (as presented in my previous post) indicates a shift in attendance to the evangelical churches such as the Sydney Anglicans, some of the Melbourne Anglican diocese, Baptists and Pentecostals.”

I said indication. I didn't say they were a “comprehensive indicator". (Putting words in my mouth not a good idea) True, not all committed Christians attend a church but those not marking the question on religion were only about 9% in the 2011 Census and a fair comment would be they would mostly comprise of people who just don’t care about religion.

Specific places might have an increase but the overall figures show a decline. Evangelical/Pentecostal and Baptist churches are a small minority of the overall population.

And just for interest, the fastest growing group and near largest demographic are those with no religion. (This is guess work but I think true)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but ‘washed’ missed a very basic and repeated point in a number of posts about my upbringing. The search option Ctrl F is your friend.

David

David,

<<Evangelical/Pentecostal and Baptist churches are a small minority of the overall population.>>

That is changing, as the demographics demonstrate.