David,

Thank you for your very gracious post. I appreciate your insight that I was simply trying to understand if e-mail addresses are publicly available. Had no intention of starting such a furor

You seem more convinced than myself that I will ever become sophisticated using my new toy. Unusual for me to have self doubt, but the darn thing has so many complexities to overcome that I'm not sure I have enough years left to do it, and still allow enough time to satisfy my quest for knowledge in so many other fields as well.

On the whole I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and the differing viewpoints, and am most impressed at how well informed many people are on various historical references they have produced in support of their arguments.

ozpen as you have involved your self in wold watcher MISTAKE TEST ME PLEASE.
IN YOU NEXT POST
tic the box at the bottom under preview.
send me an email no ficaction exetra.
open your e mail server straight after
you will see an e mail to you.
IT INFORMS YOU OF THE NEW POST, AND EVERY NEW POST IN THAT THREAD.
wish only to clear my name 7 years plus months here, I support this forum in both donations and against wrongs.
It was in one posters hands, it still is, to say sorry I got it wrong.
History warns me, not every one is as they appear, in time world watcher may admit a mistake, or other events may add to this one.
No amount of complaining can change this fact*until withdrawn in print as was the inference* WW has charged our forum with a thing it never did*.

>>>Discussion with me requires you read what I have said.

Your assertion was that Jesus was a nobody, a "dime a dozen" religious zealot. I gave you evidence to show you that this couldn't possibly be the case. That's fine, however..let's talk the divinity of Jesus.

>>>A very arrogant conclusion, no!

Jesus never claimed that world peace would dawn in His absence. It is the claim of Christianity that there will be judgment of mankind, and then there will peace. You are holding Christianity to a standard that it never imposed on itself; in fact the claim is exactly the opposite. I'm not better than you, either. God doesn't love you any less than He loves me. But yes, you have got the gist of it. Man thinks the problem is in the system and not in himself. The actual problem is the depravity in mans heart, which is why Jesus came to save us.

>>>I’ll rephrase the question and expect you to answer it in your own words.

I'm trying to answer your question, but apparently any mention of scripture prevents you from even reading the post so let me answer you without any scripture.

There are two kinds of skeptics. An honest skeptic and a dishonest skeptic. An honest skeptic is someone who doesn't know but is willing to find out. A dishonest skeptic is someone who doesn't know and doesn't want to know. Which are you? Would you be willing to sign your name to this statement?:

God, I don't know if you exist or not. I don't know if the bible is your word or not. I don't know if Jesus Christ is your Son or not, but I want to know, and because I want to know I will make an honest investigation, and because it is an honest investigation I will follow the results of that investigation where ever they lead me, regardless of the cost.

If you are willing to sign off on it, then your assignment is to read the gospel of John. It was written specifically so that you believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that by believing you would have life in His name. Although you don't now believe, you can say to God..God I don't know if this is your word of not, but if this is your word, show me. I'll make up my mind before the fact that I will obey you only if you show me this is your word and speak to my heart.

Would you be willing to do that?

>>>What will happen to atheists, including me, if we die as atheists?

Your premise is that you could die without really knowing either way, but that isn't the case. God gives revelation to every single person that He exists, through the things He has created and through their conscience. What scripture says is that people know that God exists, but suppress the truth in unrighteousness. There will be a judgment at the end of time and everyone with unforgiven sin will be cast into the lake of fire. Your sins are what are going to send you there. It doesn't matter whether you are an atheist or a backslidden Christian, the result is still the same. God offers you forgiveness but thus far you have rejected Him.

>>>A god relying on indoctrination is not an ethical god.

I wasn't indoctrinated as a child; I grew up in a secular household without any religion. I became a Christian because God revealed Himself to me. He would do the same for you, if you really wanted to know Him. Do you have a Christian background?

David,

<<If you had read the sentence before the one you quoted you would not have made such a dick of yourself. Here it is: “even in Australia, religion, like rust, never sleeps.”>>

Please forgive me for my error. I got the context wrong.

From the Australian 2011 census, mainline denominations are declining, but the Roman Catholics grew slightly; Baptists and Pentecostals grew more quickly. See: http://blog.id.com.au/2012/australian-census-2011/2011-australian-census-christian-religions/.

This census provides these details:

*'Though Christianity as a whole declined as a proportion of the population in 2011 (from 63.9% in 2006 to 61.1% in 2011), there were substantial differences between Christian groups';

* 'Among the larger Christian denominations, Catholicism grew slightly, adding 310,000 people (6.1%), to remain the largest response in Australia. Many of the major protestant denominations fell, including Anglican (-38,340), Uniting Church (-69,633), Churches of Christ (-5,133) and Salvation Army (-4,044). These are somewhat affected ageing of the UK-born population, as well as the drift to no religion. The Anglican Church, long Australia’s 2nd largest religious grouping has fallen from 23.9% of the population in 1991 to 18.7% in 2011.

* In contrast, the Charismatic churches such as Baptist (+35,757) and Pentecostal (+18,305, which includes Hillsong) continued to record increases (they were well up from 1991-2006 so this is a longer term trend)'.

From other details, we have this information:

* For the evangelical Anglicans of the Sydney diocese, 'based on Weekly Average Service Attendance data of all ages, Sydney Anglican congregations are growing at around 1.4% per annum' (see: http://matthiasmedia.com/briefing/2011/08/why-arent-we-growing/). However, Tony Payne, who wrote this assessment of the research data, headed his article, 'Why aren't we growing?' The remainder of the Anglicans declined. This is expected as theological liberalism (modernist or postmodernist) has invaded the ranks.

* The Western Sydney Regional Organization of Councils indicated that for that region, the total number of Christians, from 2006 to 2011, had increased from 897,075 to 914,855. This is out of a total population of 1,507, 877 in 2011 (see: http://profile.id.com.au/wsroc/religion).

So, the research data here is not as 'rusty' as you want to paint it