Thinker two while we travel together and I admire you we often differ.
Almost every thing you say here I agree with.
Not however the Turnbull issue, he has grown,
It seems to have been the plan, from day one,to adopt Tea Party tactics, for the whole opposition.
He stands out for what he truly is, not the roll he has been playing, it is my view Abbott put him in that roll to sideline him.
Remember, he has a head start, the numbers, polls do not lie.
To put other than him in the lead may cripple the coalition.
Gillard, yes I intensely dislike her, yes she survives only because she is confronted by Abbott.
But she has a chance, see the polls, of pulling it off.
She is , like every politician, an actress.
That suggests voters are mugs, some are.
Her personal problems will not go away,she beheaded Rudd, many men, and women , will not forgive her for that.
Confronted by Abbott?
Most would.
Remember, you said the election in the USA was in a way, did I get it right? like ours to come.
In my view it was,and sooner we break that link the better.
Romney, the man changed his views more than ANY ONE before during and you can bet after the election.
People bought it, he nearly won.
Side shows as in Australia, exist,as folk falling for pure lies propaganda, and idiot things.
In America about Obama being Muslim, not American, heaps, that country plants the seeds of its own National Dyslexia/fractured nature in its politics.
Abbott is not the first but hopefully the last Conservative to import tactics from the bottom of the barrel, America, Labor too must move away from madness such as that.
Thinker 2 I am in trouble, I know LIBERALS are bad for our country.
I know the filth emerging out of past Labor slugs is damaging my party.

And demand accountability.
WE just may get another term, if conservatives here are representative their do not care for accountability in their ranks.

Belly, it still comes back to the same question.

Ask not whether Abbott is able, but ask whether or not labor and Gillard have earned the right for another term.

Now as for the waste, not all was wasted, I accept that, I even accept that some ideas had merit, but the same ideas were miserably let down due to labors inability to implement, time and time again.

As I have often said, passing legislation is simp,y gaining permission, whereas implementation is the key, and even you have to admit they have failed in that area.

579, you and I come from two very different sides of the fence.

As an employer for most of my working life, I see the risks outweighing the gains in almost every area.

The days of small business are numbered.

Now you mentioned the future fund, and the stimulus. So where do you think these funds came from, as all labor have done is SPEND MONEY , not SAVE MONEY as did the Howard government.

Now I have a question for all those of you who are worried about the libs cutting jobs and taxing the big end to balance the books, amd my very simple question is;

How else do you propose WE AS A NATION go about it.

The future fund is self funding, through investment interest earned, now standing at some 95 billion $.
The libs do cut jobs, they have unemployment pools, to appease the big business. They cut services as these are seen as expenditure.
They need to fund middle class welfare, and cut company tax.
Small business will always be there as long as people bye their goods.
Online shopping is the new small business. Convenience, no parking worries, and easy.
The way we do things will continue to evolve, you cant be like a stick in the mud, year after year.
Legislation needs no selling, it is done because there is a call for it.
If policies are not accepted or the uptake is not there, then they are discontinued.
You ask if Labor has earned the right for another term, What makes you think a team with no policies and no foresight would be better.
We have not heard one policy from abbott, it's just negativity and going backwards.
How can you put trust in that.
Gillard is not perfect, but leaders come and go.
If the noalition don't get rid of Abbott, and replace with Turnbull they will not get my vote.

Rechtub, you will not let your self be aware of many truths.
And in defense of Abbott conveniently forget, you in another thread, addressing me, said he was not doing well.
Small business will never die,and its fate is , and never will, not hanging on government help.
I see unwritten requests to socialize small business losses here.
I too see loss from badly planed business that never had a product or plan to make it in any case.
This morning I bought goods for $2 each, at a market day.
Then next market 45 klm away, the same product was $8.
As I looked over the table the woman said please buy I have not sold a thing today.
Both equal in every way I emptied the first stall and walked away from the other.
New innovative ,meet the market, small business is always going to be around.
You just grew stale,found it easy to blame every one than to change., time to get out of any job/business.

It is a lie Rehctub to say the Howard Gov't saved money. They sold important profit making public assets like Telstra to show a temporary surplus.Whilst spending the drunken soldiers on middle class welfare and pork barreling.

Their ideology now effects the lives of every working Australian, whom is now devoid of any opportunity to improve their living standards in an economy where essential services pricing goes through the roof and no prospect of a wage rise compensating for that.

In essence the lives we lead now are a direct result of the policies of Howard and Costello, whom simply extracted the benefits of a golden economy left by the architect Keating and re-distributed those benefits to their mates in big business and smashed the capacity of working people to improve themselves.

That crappy buying from stalls story Rehctub is designed to perpetrate the myth that competition actually exists when it doesn't, when it comes to big business whom are operating cartels in every essential service or commodity as designed by the legislative pen
of Howard and Costello whom abrogated their responsibility to the electors to protect living standards.

Any personal affront towards Gillard or any other Labor leader pales into insignificance, when compared with the betrayal and abandonment of the Australian way of life bestowed upon us by Howard and Costello.

As is the case with all incoming LNP Gov'ts, they cook the books and overstate debt positions in order to break election promises as we see the Qld Gov't doing as we speak as pointed out by Clive Palmer. Even he detests the lack ethics the of it . Campbell Newman has sacked thousands of public servants based upon a lie, and denied Queenslanders of the Gov't he promised. All from ideology instead of intellect.

cont...

Your wrong Belly and I suspect that you have never been a Labor voter , otherwise the historical facts of Australian politics would be better understood by yourself. In fact your view reflects the blinkers on approach that LNP voters rely upon when dealing with truth.

The LNP has never been responsible for one piece of infrastructure and have stood in the way and obstructed public spending all along,throughout their history, all the way back too the snowy mountain scheme, that Menzies opposed and later tried to claim credit for.

Turnbull Shmirnbull, it just the same sh** different bucket. He will sell the NBN monopoly to big business just the same as Howard sold Telstra resulting in Australians paying the highest prices for telecommunications as we do now, in the world.

If this catastrophe can be prevented, big business will have to buy from us a product that they never be able to compete with and Australia will regain it's telecom sovereignty. And the people will receive the benefits, not some silver spoon mogel in another country.