What sort of personal attacks, nothing in the media. The bully can't handle being bullied.
He wants genuine aborigines, not urban aborigines.
The monk and the head monk will come to account.
People have had enough of the golden years, negativity, no, crap , xxxx happens, carbon tax tactics.
The people want policies, which don't exist.
That is what Toni's trouble is.

Belly,
Given your political history and party position, I would have expected us to be at heated loggerheads on these matters. But some-how I find it difficult to oppose your statements (except for those on RC, which neither of us can prove anyway). You must represent the union stereotype no more than I represent the rural one. It is heartening to see that there are still labour people out there with genuinely thought through positions rather than regurgitating the party spin. I find it difficult to argue with these type of people (from any party - ALP,LIB,NAT,GRN). I don't have to name them here, it is obvious who they are and they can't help themselves.
BTW- Turnball does represent a glimmer of hope amongst an otherwise scabby bunch. He may even replace Abbott soon. But even if he does, he will have the same problems Rudd did. No robust support. The expression comes to mind - "It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.

Thinker,
I think we both actually would love to see the political landscape return to something different to what we have now. i.e. thought through debate on big ideas, forward looking, outward looking, less petty and void of hidden agendas with snouts in the trough.
It is certainly a conundrum but I think I disagree with you on the best way to get there. I actually wonder whether much of the rubbish we see now is CREATED by the fact we have a minority govt. Exactly because we have a minority govt, we see limited progress on many things. Having the greens in any position of power is always dangerous because their position is always the least thought through of all. They have for a long time enjoyed the position of being able to rant any populist crap without fear of every having to actually implement it.

continued...

I must admit I was excited after the last election result. Having the rural independents in a balance of power I thought that at last we had a chance for some REAL good outcomes for rural Australia. I should have known better than to get too hopeful. They have turned out to be the biggest disappointment of all. They have wasted the chance, and it will not come around again anytime soon.
May-be it IS our political system that lies at the heart of it. After all, the point scoring environment has changed significantly in the last couple of decades. The changes in the ways people consume their media alone make for an entirely different style of politicking. After all, Rudd himself has been accused of pouring huge resources into winning the media battle of the day, regardless of real progress. I suspect there is at least some truth in that.
I'm afraid I also disagree on the increasing responsibilities on the individual. I think we have many problems in our society on account of NOT ENOUGH responsibility on the individual. After all, we are already one of the most regulated countries in the world. I do however agree on the need for more responsibilities on those in positions of power or leadership. There should be much greater punishment for people who abuse the trust put in them. Including but not limited to: politicians, ceo's, religious leaders. The punishment for the loss of these people's integrity should be much higher.

MOTL AWU is not a leftist union, it remains our best.
I am a little right of them but find common ground with you.
You maybe surprised but after the first meeting and head butting, seems mandatory, I gained the respect of both sides mostly.
Country town workers to miners to construction we mostly think alike.
Yes you are quite right some will stay on their side of the fence even if it says they hide from truth.
Gillard is not the driving force behind the RC, she had no choice, it will end well after Labor falls, a tragic but in my view unavoidable event.
Power brokers must be held to account, yet one of them is going to be the post train wreck leader.
Turnbull is a true future statesman.
ONLY ABBOTT can beat the opposition, rechtub that above is juvenile and copied from the Australian news paper.
NEGATIVE MAN has cried wolf too often, it had to come.
It would be nice MOTL to see in my view Rudd back, he is head and shoulders above some who knifed him.
HOPE? yes I do have hope! NSW and the knifing club highlight my party,s need for Democracy, it will come, after the pain.

Too illustrate why (on one front alone) an LNP Gov't would be the last straw for Australia, I suggest you all read this article. When you do you will understand why Turnbull has no credibility either.

http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2012/11/16/3634499.htm?WT.svl=news4

Thinker 2 I understand at times I must truly get under your skin.
I am however who and what I am.
A country born bloke but well schooled by my years in city life.
LNP? the very term is swearing,you will be aware for every fault in the ALP/UNION movements, bar sex crimes, equal can be found in the party,s making up this federal coalition.
You throw NSW at me,I after ducking in for a change of cloths and a shower will throw Joe back, another clean up called for, running out of fresh cloths.
The Labor party is in deep, yet it will not be the power brokers who suffer.
It will be us, the Joe and Jane,s who pay power brokers bills.
For this reason, I REFUSE to let them off the hook, POWER BROKERS IS A SWEAR WORD.
We must clean our act up now, before the impending switch to Turnbull.
He like it or not,is comeing and will reduce this mob of Gillard backers to dust.