Loudmouth (of strawman fame : )

Yes, I agree you have a warped something-or-other....acctuuallly I was replying to Belly's hobby-horse that womanish/feminine views were misguided on this subject.

Danielle,

Your mother was obviously a wise woman : )

Poirot,

Indeed.

I always enjoy your comments here immensely. Everyone else does to; you have a great fan base.

You manage to slip in those witty few words and someone comes a cropper ...

As mentioned before, we may not always agree, but I always respect - and am invariably amused - by your offerings. A breath of fresh air!

If freedom is the goal, then it's absolutely essential that religion, any religion, be kept 100% separated from governance ... ALL governance.

Current "fundamentalist" Islam is JUST as evil, violent, intolerant and controlling as mainstream Christianity was until a few hundred years ago. While current mainstream Islam, which is over 90% of Islam worldwide, is much the same as current Christianity, meaning it's "relatively" intolerant and "relatively" controlling while still bowing (often with protest) to the secular laws of the land. Religious belief, by it's very nature, encompasses various degrees of intolerance and attempted control (just look at the far right wing Christian movement in the USA, they are true nutters, and should they ever gain "real" governance, then the USA can kiss goodbye to true freedom).

Eventually, and it will probably take several thousands of years, science will likely have all the answers that explain existence. Then, humanity will look back at religious belief as an ancient curiosity that demonstrates lack of knowledge, lack of education, primitiveness, superstition and an often inhumane and sometimes brutal tool for control.

Dear Danielle ol' celery stick,

Work has been rather consuming but I felt it necessary to find time to answer your post.

Burton Joseph died a little over two years ago. He was a lawyer and a Jew. Burton's parents ran a business looking after Jewish cemeteries.

Skokie is a suburb in Illinois and in 1977 one in six among its large Jewish population was either a Holocaust survivor or directly related to one.

The National Socialist Party of America decided to march through Skokie. Their pamphlets announcing the event included images of swastikas reaching out to throttle Jews and emboldened type announced “We are Coming!”.

Understandably many civic and private organisations attempted to block the march. Burton Joseph was instrumental in convincing the American Civil Liberties Union to take the case to defend the right of the NSPA to march. They won.

Burton Joseph is one of a considerable number of Jewish people such as Noam Chomsky who inspire me and influenced my world view. I understand and admire their positions which they adopt despite, although I prefer to think because of, their Jewishness.

I have greater difficulty understanding why someone like stevenlmeyer would be mixing it with the likes of Jay of Melbourne on a thread such as this, but accept my probable sin of over-romanticizing.

I read things like “But know almost every one of them would walk past me in the gutter.” as pre-cursive and disturbing, especially as the author claims to represent middle Australia.

While certainly not claiming any moral equivalence between Skokie and Sydney, the position that the protests about the film are an assault on our free speech almost demeans the notion. Anything short of violence was exercising of the very right we say we are trying to defend.

Freedom of expression is a vital defence against tyranny and as such is too important just to play lip service toward.

It shouldn't take an Australian Burton Joseph for us to realise it.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/disunity-not-anger-is-muslim-dilemma-20120921-26c4m.html
I am having fun with the links.
Not my words but links to? MAINSTREAM THOUGHT!
Yet so badly have I blotted my copy book some refuse to read them, but finding SOMETHING in them post them here again and again.
I am unconvinced csteele is a bloke.
Think this link, truly, explains why we are hearing so many different views from this community.
Now the big hurdle.
Poirot, know how you girls get in the corner getting in to the plonk talking about the men?
We do it too! about you women.
Thanks for the difference mother nature you non existent old girl!
Thanks too for the bloke who speaks woman, even if he is only useing that skill, for sure as many women speak bloke, until his wallet is empty.
Thanks for the mother instinct, too,even when it gets it wrong.
As women say men have faults men know it is two sided.
Yet you cannot live without them.
And in some cases with them!
Lady,s know I love all women, even the poor soles walking two paces behind a fat man in a dress who regards them as property.

We are simply treating the symptom and not the cause.

The symptom is the violence, the cause is the religion.

Just remember, nobody is born to hate, they are taught to hate.

If the riots get ugly, as suggest this weekend in the likes of Melbourne, I say, that's it, time to rid OUR NATION of this crap.

Muslims either choose Australia or their religion, but they can't have both, not here.

After all, this is Australia we are talking about!